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Re^5: How should Perlmonks deal with Plagiarism?

by BrowserUk (Patriarch)
on Oct 09, 2006 at 04:01 UTC ( [id://577072]=note: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??


in reply to Re^4: How should Perlmonks deal with Plagiarism?
in thread How should Perlmonks deal with Plagiarism?

I am no longer talking about anything that has happened on PerlMonks.

Neither was I. I referred explicitely and exclusively to the example in your post.

For example, sometimes students will copy each other's homework

Your earlier post said

Teachers will get upset if you do *not* plagiarize.

Are you suggesting that if the student *doesn't* copy someone elses homework they would be penalised? Wouldn't that lead to the ludicrous situation whereby the (one) student(s) that produced the work (was)were penalised, whilst everyone else that copied them got a good grade?

I think the point is that your suggestion that "foreigners are taught to cheat" is based, at best, on misinformation. There are societies and cultures where collaborative effort between students in the completion of coursework is allowed and encouraged; but in those places, coursework usually plays no role in the final grading for the course, which is based entirely upon end-of-course examinations or similar.

What is interesting is that it goes well beyond "homework problems". What happens when some company steals your technological innovation and pass it off as their own? I can think of one country in particular that is dealing with serious patent issues.

Again, you are drifting away from the subject (plagiarism). Ripping off movies, music & games (tapes, cds, dvds); designer label cloths, accessories, perfumes; software; car, motor cycles and aircraft spares; and almost any other "proprietary" product you care to mention is just as rife in the West as anywhere else on earth. It tends to be less in-your-face in the West than elsewhere, as the laws against exist and are actively patrolled, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Nor does it mean that it is condoned or societally acceptable in those other cultures. However, there are countries and cultures where the idea of restricting the use of knowledge, to the "owners" of that knowledge; and so ensuring premium prices for the products derived from that knowledge is, or has formally been an anathema. In communist, and communistic societies, knowledge was (and some places is) seen as being for the common good. And it is an inherent aim of those systems to utilise all knowledge as widely as possible to reduce the overall cost of the benefits derived from it, to the advantage of all society. The people own everything in equal measure.

Of course, history has shown that it doesn't appear to work too well in practice, but there are plenty of bits of Western culture that despite being enshrined in law, don't work too well either.

It's interesting that the "artists" producing mass producible works like books, films, music etc. are currently able to make large fortunes from their endeavours and Western law enshrines, pursues and prosecutes their right to do so, often at the expense of the public purse. And many people here seem (at least publicly) to support this.

And yet, many of those same people are in favour of their own mass producible, "works of art" (code), being donated to the public good.


Examine what is said, not who speaks -- Silence betokens consent -- Love the truth but pardon error.
Lingua non convalesco, consenesco et abolesco. -- Rule 1 has a caveat! -- Who broke the cabal?
"Science is about questioning the status quo. Questioning authority".
In the absence of evidence, opinion is indistinguishable from prejudice.

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Re^6: How should Perlmonks deal with Plagiarism?
by jacques (Priest) on Oct 09, 2006 at 17:43 UTC
    I think the point is that your suggestion that "foreigners are taught to cheat" is based, at best, on misinformation.

    That is not my quote. And I find your assertion downright offensive. My point is that plagiarism, like many things, is viewed differently by different cultures. There are cultural dimensions to plagiarism. It is easy to define plagiarism, but it becomes a much more complex issue when dealing with different cultural worldviews. In my original post, I was simply agreeing with someone who made the same point. You can disagree with these statements, but don't put words in my mouth, buddy.

      That is not my quote. And I find your assertion downright offensive.

      If I draw that inference from your post, what inference do you imagine the diligent, hardworking, silent, moral majority of non-Western monks and Anonymonks that saw your words, drew?

      They are most unlikely to speak up given the current climate because of the actions of two of their number, but they are listening, and feeling the prejudice that such 'tar them all with the same brush' comments barely conceal. It's not so far from the 'they don't know any better' justifications for segregation that have littered history.

      Had those two guys been called Bill & Joe, and a monk with an eastern sounding handle had suggested that Western moral standards were not the same as those in Eastern cultures, there would have been (rightly) uproar. The implication of your post is that no two Western guys would have done such a thing--but every Western country has prisons full of guys who've mostly done much worse.

      There are definitely cultural difference in many areas, but I know of no society in which 'plagiarism', defined as being 'to deliberately misrepresent another writing, ideas or efforts as one's own', is an acceptable practice. I don't claim to be cognisant of all norms in all cultures, but if you believe that you know of a culture in which plagiarism is an acceptable norm, then I would suggest you cite references, rather than perpetuating prejudice through anecdotal evidence and hearsay.


      Examine what is said, not who speaks -- Silence betokens consent -- Love the truth but pardon error.
      Lingua non convalesco, consenesco et abolesco. -- Rule 1 has a caveat! -- Who broke the cabal?
      "Science is about questioning the status quo. Questioning authority".
      In the absence of evidence, opinion is indistinguishable from prejudice.
Re^6: How should Perlmonks deal with Plagiarism?
by eric256 (Parson) on Oct 09, 2006 at 19:37 UTC

    It's interesting that the "artists" producing mass producible works like books, films, music etc. are currently able to make large fortunes from their endeavours and Western law enshrines, pursues and prosecutes their right to do so, often at the expense of the public purse. And many people here seem (at least publicly) to support this.

    And yet, many of those same people are in favour of their own mass producible, "works of art" (code), being donated to the public good.

    I'm not realy sure of your point, but I did want to mention that the law allows the "Artist" to define the rights for that work and then enforces those rights. It neither forces them to sell it or give it away, instead it allows them to choose and makes the public follow that choice. "pursues and prosecutes their right to do so, often at the expense of the public purse" that is one of the best things ever! We have decided that the good of the people isn't as important as the rights of the few, I'm pretty sure there is a famous quote along those lines somewhere. I know that sounds realy weird, but the point is that the government shouldn't be able to take away my rights just because it thinks it should (not that this always works, nothing is perfect after all) and so my rights are more important than whatever the government deems as best for the public. I'm not a politician or a scholar so i'm probably wrong on some points, but you get the gist of it I hope.


    ___________
    Eric Hodges

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