Re: What's wrong with Perl 6?

[Juerd]

I'm inclined to say that only the name is wrong. However, that would be interpreted incorrectly. Perl 6 is Perl, and I agree with the argumentation that Larry gives.

I do think the long name (including version number) should not have been Perl 6. Mind you, that includes the 6. Because the "6" part is the problem, not the "Perl" part. In my opinion, it's okay to reserve a version number only if you can deliver it within a year. Maybe two years. But it has been 7 years so far, and the end is still not in sight.

Calling it Perl 6 so long before the first release creates expectations that cannot be met, causes confusion, and demotivates people to work with and on Perl 5.

On the other hand, changing the name after 7 years may be an even worse idea. I don't know. I still like the idea of calling it "Onion" during development, and rebranding it as "Perl" when a release candidate is nigh.

Perl 6 is taking too long

I think so, but no single person is to "blame" for that. The Perl 6 we have now is not what anyone had in mind after OSCON 2000 -- if there had been releases in between, it would have taken 7 more years to come to this point, and the version would have been 8.4, or indeed 16.

Perl 6 is too much like Java

It's also too much like Ruby, too much like Python, too much like PHP, too much like Tcl, too much like Perl, and too much like C. Perl 6 is so incredibly vast, that anyone can find things they don't like about it. And we like to compare those things to other languages, because the other langugae sucks by definition. But actually, Perl 6 isn't like those languages, and it doesn't suck in the same ways. I myself try to focus on the (many!) things that I *do* think were improved, and will learn to live with the few remaining annoyances.

Perl 6 isn't Perl 5

...

Perl 6 is being designed by committee

Some complain that Perl 6 is being designed by a committee, some complain that Perl 6 is being designed by only one guy. Both are true, and some people will just never be happy. :)

Perl 6 is suffering from the second-system effect

We'll see if the second system effect is a blessing or a curse.

Perl 6 is hurting Perl 5 by consuming resources

This may have been true at one point, but it currently is not. Different people work on the different projects. In fact, very few people still work on Perl 6.

[chromatic]

In my opinion, it's okay to reserve a version number only if you can deliver it within a year. Maybe two years. But it has been 7 years so far, and the end is still not in sight.

What's your new name for Perl 5.10?

[Juerd]

Bleadperl. And note that it's 5.9, not 5.10. It will be 5.10, but nobody says it is.

[demerphq]

I do think the long name (including version number) should not have been Perl 6. Mind you, that includes the 6. Because the "6" part is the problem, not the "Perl" part. In my opinion, it's okay to reserve a version number only if you can deliver it within a year.

This is my primary complain about the current situation as well. By taking the version number 6 long before anything was ready it signalled that Perl 5 was dead and soon to be replaced by something new. When that new thing didnt come out it left the meme in the market that both Perl 5 and Perl 6 were dead, (one of old age and the other still-born). This meme is doubly incorrect, Perl 6 isnt still-born, and Perl 5 is most definitely not dead of old age.

I really hope that Larry takes the opportunity over this summers conferences to push the point that neither are dead. Especially Perl 5 as I believe that Perl 6 will prove its point when its released but that Perl 5 is currently suffering from the confusion in the marketplace.

[TimToady]

I really hope that Larry takes the opportunity over this summers conferences to push the point that neither are dead.

I don't know why you think that would help. I've said the same thing every summer and more or less been ignored. I think the main problem here is simply a basic human tendency: far too many people would much rather listen to themselves spout ignorant opinions than try to figure out which of the other spouters aren't. They don't necessarily mean any harm by it, but then we all intentionally blind ourselves to the harm in what we do, to some extent or another. That's the psychological danger inherent in living your life based on minimizing harm rather than maximizing love.

[demerphq]

I don't know why you think that would help

Because countering a bad meme requires repetition and persistance. Also with a bit of luck and effort we will see Perl 5.10 released, which coupled with your advocacy should go a long way to countering this market confusion.

And you know what, even it doesnt help it would make me personally, and I suspect others as well, feel better about our efforts on the Perl 5 track.

OT: what do you recommend for dealing with all the myriad places that the term "perl compatible regular expression" is used? Its a commonly used phrase, printed in books, in library documentation, in other languages libraries, heck even MS uses the term afaik. Since the term is now ambiguous what should happen?