Re^3: A request from level 21
by Argel (Prior) on Jul 10, 2008 at 21:52 UTC
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Well, I wouldn't expect a lowly Friar to fully grasp the nuances of The Monastery. Certainly not as much as a Saint would.
I am of course being facetious. But I will call point, set, and match. Showing levels is a bad idea because it promotes elitism. I think the XP system was just fine the way it was -- no additional encouragement was needed and it struck a nice balance between encouraging participation without encouraging too much elitism or someone "pulling rank". Having the title displayed in posts breaks that balance.
Besides, as grinder pointed out this change was made to (in theory) help deal with trolls. Does it accomplish that goal? And are the unintended consequences worth it? I am (not surprisingly) inclined to say "no" to both.
I have to say that I am pretty disappointed right now. It's sad when a simple suggestion like mine in 694443 that would make Super Search easier to use goes unimplemented while ones that can have a significant negative impact on the social workings of The Monastery are implemented without even a modicum of meaningful discussion. Not cool!
Regarding the religious motif, yes, it is meant to be fun. But that can be taken too far. The obvious example of this is the Grand Inquisitor title that was renamed to Sage (see this thread for more). I'm inclined to say showing the titles is pushing things a little too far.
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I have to say that I am pretty disappointed right now. It's sad when a simple suggestion like mine in 694443 that would make Super Search easier to use goes unimplemented while ones that can have a significant negative impact on the social workings of The Monastery are implemented without even a modicum of meaningful discussion. Not cool!
Sometimes you have to make changes first to get to the meaningful discussion part. Otherwise you mostly get a lot of comments from people who like to solve social problems, who tend to be the people who would end up being happy almost no matter what (though that may not be their self-perception).
I certainly thought about opt-in vs. opt-out and actual user-setting vs. just css control
before making the change, but I didn't expect to get enough (or any, really) meaningful feedback on those variations just by starting a discussion. Making the change and seeing
who reacts how seemed like the only effective way to judge how people would take it.
So consider this feature as being in a open for comments period; thank you for your comments.
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I'm not in favour of this feature either. It clutters the reply header without adding value. I prefer to visit a monk's home node to find out more about them, at least there I can see other things like their number of write ups and how long they've been here etc.
I agree that publicising the levels to this extent is kind of dehumanizing, like being forced to wear an armband. No doubt I could choose not to see what armbands others are wearing, but would I be able prevent others from seeing what armband I am wearing?
Also, it takes time for a (signed-up) troll to acquire his negative karma, and having a troll armband is likely to encourage the troll to 'work' for his armband - which really defeats the point of this feature.
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I agree with most of this. I guess I just don't take the motif that seriously, but I respect that some do. I personally don't care if I'm a friar or pope, nor has anyone busted me on my low xp even when presenting the failings of perl 6 to Saint Larry.
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I didn't think it did either, but I do find it a bit disturbing to have "Priest" next to my name. Before this change was implemented the XP/Level things was more in the background and more personal (e.g. the message indicating how much XP you still need to reach the next level). I liked it that way. I don't like it in the foreground like it is now and I really hope someone rolls this back.
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I think Grand Inquisitor would suit Him very well hehe!
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Re^3: A request from level 21
by rovf (Priest) on Jul 11, 2008 at 09:07 UTC
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Well, being an agnostic (not an atheist), I see the whole
stuff pretty relaxed. Maybe the only sad thing is that I
can't ever become god - I would enjoy seeing people pray to me ;-)
Joking aside, I had expected arguments against our religious levels coming rather from fundamental christs than from those fellow monks who are not so extremely inclined to Christianity (which comprises everyone from three-quarter--hearted Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, up to Agnostics and Atheists). I think the labels are entertaining, and it is just one of the things which makes the site so entertaining to use. So I vote for leaving things as they are...
--
Ronald Fischer <ynnor@mm.st>
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I think the labels are entertaining
It was fine when it was just on one's homenode and e.g. Saints in our Book. But I do not want people influenced too much from seeing "Argel (Priest)" over and over again (*). There really needs to be a way to opt-out completely -- i.e. where no one would see the title (besides the usual places before this change).
I also find them distracting and dehumanizing. Without the titles there is just the user's nickname to go by which helps personalize it. But now I have already found myself focusing on just the title -- e.g. "oh, just an Acolyte, I'll skip reading that thread". The XP system is meant to encourage participation -- not forming cliques, elitist attitudes, etc. You might want to meditate on what some of the long-term ramifications of this change will likely be.
(*) Yeah, I know -- I should stop posting! ;-)
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Re^3: A request from level 21
by Argel (Prior) on Jul 10, 2008 at 22:02 UTC
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The site is partially driven by xp hunger.
Actually, now that I think about I'm not sure if that is really true. XP does encourage participation, but do some of our most vocal and helpful Monks such as ikegami and BrowserUK really care about XP that much? I think for several of us the XP system is more like icing on the cake or a pat on the back.
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