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Re: IRC vs. Newsgroups vs. Web Forums

by KM (Priest)
on Apr 13, 2001 at 21:11 UTC ( #72401=note: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??


in reply to IRC vs. Newsgroups vs. Web Forums

But why is it so difficult to participate in almost any discussion on efnet #perl without getting flamed or kick/banned?

FYI.. most get kick/banned from #perl because a) they don't read the rules of the channel (summarized in the channel topic), and b) get nasty when someone points them to docs instead of writing things for them.

(efnet) #perl is not a Perl-help channel. It is a place for people who like Perl to gather and hang out. Noone there feels obligated to help, since that is not the purpose of the channel.

I just wanted to clarify that :)

Would all the time on Perl Monks/IRC/newsgroups be better spent in front of a book and/or a text editor?

I don't think so. I think that real-time (or near real-time) communication with others doing what you are is invaluable. I spend time here, #perl on 2 different networks, and various mailing lists. I think if I didn't, my Perl knowlege would have been stunted because I couldn't learn by interacting (or even lurking) with others.

Cheers,
KM

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Re: Re: IRC vs. Newsgroups vs. Web Forums
by mothra (Hermit) on Apr 13, 2001 at 21:38 UTC
    FYI.. most get kick/banned from #perl because a) they don't read the rules of the channel (summarized in the channel topic), and b) get nasty when someone points them to docs instead of writing things for them.

    I can speak from firsthand experience and say that this simply isn't true. Some of the ops (but I certainly won't categorize and say all) have power trips and look for ways to kick people.

    For example, the other day an op "informed" me that Linux was only a kernel. I sarcastically replied with "Um, can you state something slightly more obvious? :)" (with the happy face in there too I believe, but either way, my intent was clearly being sarcastic, not offensive, even though I felt it almost offensive that I was being talked down as if I had never used a computer before. I'm QUITE aware that Linux is a kernel, thank you :).

    But anyways, as a reply, this op responded with (something "more obvious" I guess) "Unix is more capable than Linux". An op...in #perl...saying that!? There's enough I-want-to-start-a-holy-war in there to light up a small town.

    Shortly thereafter, other ops "joined into this discussion" (in quotes because, they didn't exactly "join in" but rather "pushed their way in", and it was more of an annoying "arugment" than a discussion). Before long one particular op (who is ALWAYS the one that k/b's me, the only op I have real problems with, every time) was essentially name-calling and telling me to leave saying that I never contribute anything useful, and how much of an idiot I was for trying to start a flamewar (Um, I wasn't the one making the blanket statements and giving zero proof of why anyone should think I'm right).

    Within minutes said op k/b'd me. That was about 3 days ago and I'm still banned because of it. Now, again, I'm not using Perl Monks as a voice for flaming any other forum, but does this seem like appropriate op behaviour? Even if it's "just a hangout for Perl programmers", do you honestly (not that you were an op involved) treat your friends like this when you hang out in real life?

    And again, to revisit my original post in this thread, the point is that I'm starting to feel like there's too much of this crap going around in -- for some reason mostly Perl -- forums it seems. I honestly believe that places like #perl and clpmisc have driven some from using Perl to switching to the "more friendly" communties like Python's. In fact, I occasionally hear this sentiment reflected in IRC and on the web.

      Says mothra:
      Some of the ops have power trips and look for ways to kick people.
      That certainly is true. And since the mass exodus from EFnet, many of the more moderate and rational people are gone.

      I'm starting to feel like there's too much of this crap going around in -- for some reason mostly Perl -- forums it seems.
      While I agree that there is far too much of it going on (and I'm hoping to give a talk about this at TPC this summer) I disagree with you that it is mostly in Perl forums. There are plenty of communities that have worse cases of this disease. Try reading comp.lang.lisp for a couple of weeks. Now there is a newsgroup with big problems.

      I can speak from firsthand experience and say that this simply isn't true

      I didn't say people get k/b'd for those two reasons. I said 'most'. Please don't say what I am saying (especially since I am an op there) isn't true, when it is. I may go back in the logs and see if what you are saying is true (out of curiosity).

      who is ALWAYS the one that k/b's me, the only op I have real problems with, every time) was essentially name-calling and telling me to leave saying that I never contribute anything useful,

      So, one person you have trouble with. Sorry that sometimes ops can be, well, jerks.. but it is the way it is (in most communities)

      Even if it's "just a hangout for Perl programmers", do you honestly (not that you were an op involved) treat your friends like this when you hang out in real life?

      Like what? Saying they are wrong? Flick them behind the ear? Of course!

      Anyways, I don't mean to defend #perl against another unsatisfied customer. But, please don't say what I am saying isn't true. I don't care to be called a lier.

      So, let's just give eachother the respective --'s and be done with this :)

      Cheers,
      KM

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