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Re: Sometimes I'd Rather Punch Myself in the Head

by perigrin (Sexton)
on Dec 19, 2008 at 22:52 UTC ( #731684=note: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??


in reply to Sometimes I'd Rather Punch Myself in the Head
in thread Five Features Perl 5 Needs Now

The Moose hackers don't want to commit to any syntax, and they don't want their code in the core. (This is the Perl 6 syntax which has remained stable for longer than Moose has existed. I had a hand in the Perl 6 object system, as you know.)

That's not exactly fair. One you're lumping "the Moose hackers" in together, be specific. I know autarch didn't comment on that thread, nor did Sartak, nor did nothingmuch or stevan. That covers everybody who's made an official release of Moose in the last year or two, and the top 4 Moose committers. As someone who has contributed to Moose, I *support* your patch, I just don't have any skills with C to do more than cheer you on. I know that others (who may have the skills) do as well, including Florian and mst who're responsible for MooseX::Declare.

Two, Moose people don't want Moose in Core for specific reasons. Most of the people who have released core have said (and sadly not in a public forum) that if Perl were on a stable and frequent enough release schedule that would obliviate the major complain that core == death. I have argued with you elsewhere that I think *core* should be as minimal as possible and things like Moose should live outside. Perhaps I should clarify, "should live outside until the someone decides that they're important enough to be made part of the default language". Your class patch is something that I think should be made part of the default language for roughly the reasons you've expressed elsewhere.

Before slagging on "The Moose hackers", please actually verify that "The Moose hackers" need slagging and that you're not just reacting to one or two loud and opinionated people.

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Re^2: Sometimes I'd Rather Punch Myself in the Head
by chromatic (Archbishop) on Dec 19, 2008 at 22:57 UTC
    One you're lumping "the Moose hackers" in together, be specific.

    You're right; I based that off of a response from Jonathan Rockway and didn't ask anyone else. I'll update my rant accordingly.

    I'd certainly be happy to get some public comment from people who like the idea of the class patch, as well as people who'd like to see more frequent stable releases. Sometimes I feel like Cassandra trying to homestead an undiscovered country (to mix metaphors).

      You're right; I based that off of a response from Jonathan Rockway and didn't ask anyone else.

      Yeah. I discarded a reply to Jon because while I like him and agree with him on several things (including his points here in *general*1), I disagree with him in specific on your patch. I didn't feel I should reply on p5p because, not being a C programmer I had no substantial way to help improve the process other than to say "this is awesome." Next time I'll respond and make sure that you understand that the Moose Hackers (all hundred and something of us) aren't a united front. :)

      1: I think that things like Devel::Declare let you test out syntax changes and see what works and what doesn't outside of core ... and once you find something that a sufficient number agree is cool and useful it should be moved into core. Jon, I believe, doesn't see why you shouldn't just expand the definiton of "Perl" to include "CPAN". I've worked in environments where that was Hard.

Re^2: Sometimes I'd Rather Punch Myself in the Head
by zby (Vicar) on Dec 22, 2008 at 10:05 UTC

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