No more "saint complaints" will be heard

[merlyn]

Trust me when I say this: Never in my life, have I put you on a pedestal

Although this doesn't even deserve a reply, let me tell you what I now trigger on. In this post, you said:

As a saint here, and possibly as a "respected" person, ....

The moment you invoke a role you've put me in, that's putting me on a pedestal. If I was just an ordinary guy, and had done that, would you have been as upset? If so, why did you feel the need to single out my role for you?

I'll stand by my claim. You put me on a pedestal just so you can knock it out from under me. Please stop that.

And any other post here that criticizes me with "because you're a saint here, BLAH BLAH", or "because you're a respected member of the community, BLAH BLAH", I'm now ignoring. Period. I'm just an average joe. Get over it. If your argument depends on some status you've assigned me, you've just weakened it. Make the same case without that, and I'll listen.

-- Randal L. Schwartz, Perl hacker

[arhuman]

I'm just an average joe.
-- Randal L. Schwartz, Perl hacker

Interesting sentence, for several reasons...
(Furthermore it's now certain that you're not part of the conspiracy)
May I quote you from now ;-)

UPDATE :
As I'm being downvoted I begin to worry of how my post was perceived...
(No no ! I'm not worrying about XP ;-)

My post goal was :

• Add a little bit of humour on a thread which were becoming a little bit conflictual to my mind.
• Notes that it's one of the few times Merlyn says something like that.
• I found funny that someone like Merlyn says 'I'm an average joe'
  (He remains a great guy, as I already said in some of my previous post or on the CB)
Now if you don't agree, this things being said, go on downvoting but a little msg explaining why would be fine.
I don't care about XP, and KNOW that that can be wrong (often),
but I'd like to know when I'm wrong (and why I'm wrong...)

"Only Bad Coders Badly Code In Perl" (OBC2IP)

[footpad]

As an "Average Joe," you appear to appreciate honesty and forthrightness.

As an "Average Joe," I respond best when treated with courtesy. I do not respond well to potentially inflammatory rhetoric, name calling, or the appearance of the same.

As you well know, the appearance of a problem is often far more destructive than its actual presence. Consider, if you will, the effect of the appearance of various harassment forms or the appearance of a conflict of interest.

I believe that if you want people to be nice to you, you must first be nice to them--even when they're not nice back. There are times when it helps to allow certain amounts of static to go by without comment.

You've posted many thoughts regarding the pedestal issue. They don't seem to be having the desired affect. Perhaps a different approach may help? 'Twere me, I might consider ignoring the issue completely and demonstrating JAPH-ness by leading through example.

--f

[Macphisto]

As a saint here, and possibly as a "respected" person, ....
In regards to the above quote: You're a saint, and as a saint ( as with all saints ), are expected to not pull childish stunts. If some newbie came through and saw that, then started throwing images into their post titles, it could have caused mayhem. As it stands, Tim had to strip your title which caused certain problems. Links were broken ( i.e. "In reply to:" links ). It's not putting you on a pedestal it's expecting you to do the equivalent of "acting your age" when it comes into the monestary.
As for the "respect" bit, you are at times referred to a respected person in the perl community ... and again if some newbie comes in and says, "Hey merlyn does it, it must be good," then they might repeat the seemingly innocuous act.

And I'll be honest, I learned Perl from your ORA Learning Perl book, and respected you for it. But when I got here, through a series of events, I turned to not respecting you whatsoever and blatantly disliking you. This is of course only my personal feelings. I don't discount your abilities as a programmer, so don't take any disrespect to that...I still use Learning Perl from time to time. I just don't like you whatsoever, and thus it would be hard to put you up on a pedestal

Note: These are my feelings. If you're new here don't base any thoughts of Randal ( or anyone else! )using what I feel or say, as with everything make your own judgements for what you feel.
Macphisto the I.T. Ninja

Everyone has their demons....

[azatoth]

I have been following this thread with pseudo-interest.

I believe merlyn stated he was demonstrating a "feature", and forgot to remove it. Ok, so maybe it screwed some stuff up. But it's hardly a childish stunt meant to cause harm to the community in which he thrives now is it?

I think it would be best if everyone quit bitching in public. If you want to continue, take it outside fellas.

Azatoth a.k.a Captain Whiplash
sub-rosa

Make Your Die Messages Full of Wisdom!
Get YOUR PerlMonks Stagename here!
Want to speak like a Londoner?

[tilly]

I believe that you have seriously misunderstood both the situation, and that you seriously misunderstand merlyn. Besides which, if saints cannot pull childish stunts then half the jokes that people like me and tye throw around don't belong here.

I am a saint here and I will throw around all of the childish stunts I feel like!

That said, the purpose of merlyn pulling that stunt is not fundamentally (IMO) childish. People often try to break things because they want to encourage the fixing of what is breakable before it is seriously abused. Also the same exploratory instincts for pushing the limits of a system are what leads people to explore a language and learn it well. The same instinct that leads Randal to try and explore the implementation of the Monastery lead him to learn Perl to the point he could write good documentation and books, and led him to know it so well that he can instantly notice errors in people's code.

In short, what you dislike is actually a manifestation of a constructive tendancy. Which you have personally benefited from.

This does not change my separate opinion that there are things he could do to lessen how many people misunderstand him. But that is not what this post is about. My point in this post is to make it clear that I think you are mistaken, you are being a class A jerk, and that I believe that you accomplished somewhere between zilch and nada/ (Unless you want to count starting some arguments as an "accomplishment". I don't.)

[Macphisto]

Besides which, if saints cannot pull childish stunts then half the jokes that people like me and tye throw around don't belong here.

There is a marked difference between a normal childish stunt and childish stunt that points out an exploit. Especially one on a node! With it being located in the title of a node, it's highly visible, and opens it right up for someone who has malicious ( not delicious! ) intentions. I didn't have a problem with him putting it up real quick as a joke in the CB, but it really should have been taken down quickly and not left unattended.
People often try to break things because they want to encourage the fixing of what is breakable before it is seriously abused.

That's ridiculous, I believe him when he said he "forgot" about it, but as it stands, he should have made it a point to remember and fix it before others who weren't using their exploratory instincts for good, could cause damage. As it stands, vroom had to go tear it out. Real helpful, much more than say a /msg to vroom. Security through obscurity has it's merits.

My point in this post is to make it clear that I think you are mistaken, you are being a class A jerk,

Hey, I've got no problem with your opinions, and hey, plently of people think I'm a jerk -- even my friends. :)

This thread got out of hand between Randal and I. It started as "Is this useful" and went into what each person though was useful, then it came into his assumption that I put him on a pedestal, which if you knew me, you'd find I don't put people on pedestals ... whether I like them or not.

Macphisto the I.T. Ninja

Everyone has their demons....

[KM]

For the love of god.. can we grow up around here? Take your personal insults and dislikes where they belong, out of the public view.

Cheers,
KM