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Re^7: The current state of Perl 6

by chromatic (Archbishop)
on Apr 20, 2010 at 04:23 UTC ( #835646=note: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??

in reply to Re^6: The current state of Perl 6
in thread The current state of Perl6

The debate is about a specification and a implementation that matches the specification....

Royce's 1970 paper itself debunked that idea, no matter how many people have misread (or, more likely, misNOTread) it over the past 40 years. I suppose it's grown into its own cottage industry, much like misquoting Fred Brooks out of context.

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Re^8: The current state of Perl 6
by Anonymous Monk on Apr 20, 2010 at 04:46 UTC
    Well nobody is saying that the specification should be frozen such that it will be never changed ever after. What I meant was you must freeze it temporarily, match it, take feed back, modify as per feedback, freeze it ... and the cycle ... Every time you freeze it and the implementation that corresponds to it qualifies as a "Production Release" or "Spec complete" for that version of the specification.

      Why bother freezing a specification you're going to modify anyway, especially given that almost all of the modifications in the Perl 6 specification in the past couple of years (if not longer) have come at the request of implementors?

      How is your proposal not a game of semantics dusted with a light sprinkling of unnecessary ceremony? Being able to point to any specific version of a specification won't change the fact that anyone remotely responsible and intelligent will have to evaluate any given release as to its actual qualities and not merely adherence to a specification that everyone knows will change from feedback anyway.

        All specifications have something called as a freeze point/Release/you-name-it eg : C++ 98 etc. And that is important because it gives the implementors and the users something to target to. If the C++ 98 specification was never frozen and would continue to evolve till todays date there would be no such thing called as a C++ implementation because the target itself is not complete and implementations keep going on... the bugs keep coming on... and ultimately the users get bored and just go away. As has happened in case of Perl 6.

        Take perl 5.12 for example, after two years of development a point was reached that ... Ok, here we are after two years lets stop here ... release this and carry on future development on top of it. There fore 5.12 is a production release and life goes on after that... Why can't perl 6 do that?
        As you yourself mentioned you are in the publishing business. Why do you have drafts and editions??? Why don't you just go on and on writing for decades making your novel/book thousands pages long without publishing it.

      To freeze a spec, even temporarily, requires making a decision. But as soon as you set a goal, you create an expectation that it wil be met at some point.

      And the only firm decision taken on the various Perl6 projects, is to be indecisive. To manage expectations by creating none.

        To manage expectations by creating none
        they clearly haven't been able to manage that with Perl6...
Re^8: The current state of Perl 6
by Anonymous Monk on Apr 20, 2010 at 09:13 UTC
    I don't even know who Royce is, much less his paper. What paper exactly is that ?
      I don't even know who Royce is, much less his paper.

      Royce was a founder of software project management. His 1970 paper is, perhaps, the most influential document on managing software projects. Anyone lecturing other people on how to manage software projects and schedules and scopes and specifications should be familiar with it.

        I like the '70s , maybe I'll read it when I get some free time and when you post a link to it.

        I like the fact that you're well-read, there may be some hope after all.

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