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I know I'm not alone in this

by Logicus (Initiate)
on Oct 02, 2011 at 12:14 UTC ( #929138=offtopicroot: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??

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Re: I know I'm not alone in this
by Jenda (Abbot) on Oct 02, 2011 at 20:02 UTC

    I'm still waiting for any me-toos ...

    If everyone is bashing you, maybe ... just maybe ... I know it's hard to even think about something like that ... but maybe ... it's because of you. We can't be nasty to you because of your skin color, because of your curly hair or long nose simply because we don't know any of this. All we know of you is what you wrote YOURSELF and if the general response is not nice it can only be what you wrote and HOW you wrote it that caused such response.

    P.S.: I find the sentence "a failed dotcom startup which was ruined by idiotic investors," rather characteristic. It's always "them", never you.

    Jenda
    Enoch was right!
    Enjoy the last years of Rome.

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Re: I know I'm not alone in this
by armstd (Friar) on Oct 02, 2011 at 13:43 UTC

    I've read all this before. snakes and ladders So I'm not sure what the point of this is.

    I know I'm not alone in this position. I've heard it said that most perl programmers hand roll their own solutions.

    Unfortunately, I do see this often. Too much ego or just ignorance in the Perl developer community. Forget Perl, too many lazy developers in general would rather creatively solve problems already solved than solve problems not yet solved, because that's really hard.

    I know it's easy to just assume that EVERYONE who does so is going to come up with something which is of significantly lesser quality than the established systems. But then that is a generalisation, and sometimes it's going to be wrong... completely and totally dead wrong.

    I think that's not accurate. Many times that reinvented wheel does work better. Does it matter? Not really. The old wheel was round, it turned. It was good enough. But we didn't really need to improve gas mileage, we really needed to stop using fossil fuels. Because then we would really be making progress.

    So maybe the assumption is not necessarily that the new wheel will be of lesser quality, but certainly there's some amount of assumption that the reinventor of that wheel isn't really community-minded or interested in working toward the greater good.

    Now when reinventor starts asking for help because the new wheel isn't working out so great, they are now attempting to drain resources from the greater good. Now we're not just ignoring the greater good and not contributing to it, we're taking people's time away from it too. So yeah, there will be some resistance there. Some of the more kind hearted will see an opportunity to recruit reinventor toward the light and working toward the greater good. Others more jaded from past experience...well. Responses will clearly be mixed.

    Now when reinventor starts bashing and insulting the community for not helping fix his wheel the way he demands they do... W-T-F man.

    But I digress. Again. It's all been said before.

    --Dave

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Re: I know I'm not alone in this
by Tux (Canon) on Oct 02, 2011 at 12:51 UTC

    I read it all. I kept reading, even if you keep bashing on those that are in your audience. That is also probably your biggest problem. Even *if* your project, what you yourself call a big pile of shite, is worth pursuing, you fear away all those that might be interested.

    The monk-bashing indeed would earn you a lot on negative points, even though the whole store could be instructive enough to plus it. I won't vote this time.


    Enjoy, Have FUN! H.Merijn
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Re: I know I'm not alone in this
by Anonymous Monk on Oct 02, 2011 at 19:39 UTC

    And I know I am not alone.

    What do you mean by that?

      What do you think I mean by that?

        What do you think I mean by that?

        Maybe you're under the impression you're not the only glass shard in the bowl?

        It isn't clear what you mean, , which is why I asked.

Re: I know I'm not alone in this
by chromatic (Archbishop) on Oct 02, 2011 at 23:58 UTC
    I waited a couple of days and then I thought, hold on, what ever happened to loose coupling?

    Does it not seem premature to judge the quality of the code before you've seen it?


    Improve your skills with Modern Perl: the free book.

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Re: I know I'm not alone in this
by Anonymous Monk on Oct 04, 2011 at 21:47 UTC
    WHAA WHAA MY PUSSY HURTS!!!
      Well get it de-clawed then.
Re: I know I'm not alone in this
by Anonymous Monk on Oct 02, 2011 at 21:24 UTC

    Sure, this post is going to get me loads of negatives and probably irritate certain people, but I know I'm not alone the position I'm at and well connecting to others who feel my frustration and can empathise with it and help from the position I am currently at is, I feel, the only way I can make any progress right now, so negative votes and public humiliation be damned, I'm damn well going to say what I have to say and I don't care if you don't like it.

    So for those who don't know the story, here it is in a nutshell, prior to discovering perlmonks and prior to really knowing much about CPAN, I built at great lengths of effort piecing together bits and bobs of information from various google searches, a system which I called aXML.

    I honestly believed my many many months of effort had produced something good, something worth sharing with others, so I did, and the rest is as you might say, history. Because unbeknownst to me, in the dark recesses of the uncharted world of Perl, many others had trodden many similar paths, and come to unknown concensuses about how things should be done.

    So I took it on board that my system was crap, utterly worthless, obsolete, the work of a moron who doesn't know any better... because that is the MESSAGE I was given by this place and the people who frequented it at the time. For a long time I drifted away from the world of programming entirely filled my time with doing computer technician work, and so on.

    I never really stopped programming, or learning things, I just didn't open my gob up to talk about it on places like this, already knowing just exactly what to expect if I did.

    After a long time, lots of expirements, a failed dotcom startup which was ruined by idiotic investors, I had reached a point of confidence that I could build large applications using my system, and that such large systems were very much neater and tidier than the spaghetti mess of various systems by various "professional" programmers I had been exposed to, and so I gained enough confidence in myself and my work to expose it again.

    SLAM! same effect only now amplified and fuelled even harder by the apparency of EGO in my words that had taken years to build up the confidence to say. People called me delusional, sick, manipulative; alsorts of freaky projections on my character were made from alsorts of freaky angles as people applied lame armchair psychology to what was going on without a thought or a care as to accuracy of their assertions or the impact of their words.

    Once again I reeled from experience, but I'm not going off for another 4 years again this time... oh no no no. Another experience I just had has just fuelled my fire again.

    So I started looking into PSGI and Plack and really liking it. I did experiments and got a slightly modified version of aXML working very fast indeed. But the niggling doubts from my previous experiences continue to eat at me, and so I decided to approach a certain very well respected programmer on here, who I won't name, and I asked him if there was any chance he could chuck together a very basic little barebones set of files to start me off based on how he does things.

    My intention was to adhere religiously to the pattern produced, to learn from my prior experiences with aXML as far as possible, but ultimately to ditch aXML and embrace the "kosher" way of doing things.

    The guy's response was great, He seemed more than willing to put me on the right lines, but then he said something which struck me as odd at first. He said he would need a few days to put something together as everything was tied together with his current projects.

    I waited a couple of days and then I thought, hold on, what ever happened to loose coupling? My system, the much vaunted and publicly labelled apparent pile of shite, that it is, is loosely coupled. I could zip up the core of the thing and pass it on to someone who, if they knew the system, could begin a new production with it almost instantly after editing just one config file.

    If the performance of the system under stress wasn't a problem I would have no need whatsoever to continue this day after day struggle to find scraps of information and assemble this jigsaw because from my perspective, I'm reinventing wheels that I have already invented, re-solving problems I've already solved and had to solve alone out of necessity because the solutions which already existed were either unknown to me, or too difficult to find or understand.

    I know I'm not alone in this position. I've heard it said that most perl programmers hand roll their own solutions. I know it's easy to just assume that EVERYONE who does so is going to come up with something which is of significantly lesser quality than the established systems. But then that is a generalisation, and sometimes it's going to be wrong... completely and totally dead wrong.

    I don't expect, as one person so elequently put it, that the Perl world should fall at my feet and embrace my system, but it would be nice, if anyone ANYONE would look at the situation I have, and help me move forward from where I ACTUALLY am AT, instead of everyone just slating me off, voting me down, ignoring the problem and hoping I will go away.

    I just want to add also, not everyone here has a job or is rowing their boat merrily down the stream. The internet in general dis-associates people from the true impact of their comments and words on others, whilst it might seem fun or trivial to have a little bash at the egomaniac with shit code, what you cannot possibly know is that when said egomaniac gets pissed off and declares "I'm going to the pub", it can very well be the case that said egomaniac drinks often because said egomaniac cannot afford FUCKING DENTISTRY.

    Now as far as I am concerned, I built something sweet, went to share it openly and altruistically, and I received a sentence of PAIN from this place.

    And I know I am not alone.

    How?

      How what?

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