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Experience System

by plaid (Chaplain)
on Apr 27, 2000 at 03:14 UTC ( #9344=monkdiscuss: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??

It seems to me that the experience gained here is based too much on voting. There is a 25% chance of getting experience for every vote, and 50% experience for each vote if all are used. This equates to a 75% chance of experience per vote, compared to only a 33% chance of experience when you're voted for. Not to accuse anyone of anything, but I've noticed a few people gaining large amounts of xp with long periods of not postings things. The amount of xp given for using all votes also contributes to people wanting to hand out votes just to get the xp, and leads to some posts being overvalued. The amount of votes given are also too high.. What I believe this all adds to is people posting re-statements of other answers to try to get experience, and since there are so many votes laying around, these nodes end up getting voted for.

I'm not criticizing anything here, as I know the whole experience system is new, I just want to throw out my opinions on the matter.

First, I think all experience for voting should be eliminated, as it just encourages the xp hogs to throw around votes, perhaps to nodes that don't deserve them. The percentage thing for being voted on is good, as it adds a bit of non-predictability to the whole matter. Getting experience for logging in is also good, as it's not too much, and adds incentive for continued participation in the site.

I think settings things this way will help separate the people who have genuinely good answers and/or insight into perl from the people who just vote. What does anyone else think about this matter?

Replies are listed 'Best First'.
RE: Experience System
by neshura (Chaplain) on Apr 27, 2000 at 21:30 UTC
    Okay I'll bite on this one. Unlike the scions of Perl here (you know who you are), I'm just horribly busy on a daily basis. But I really like this site and while I've been too tired to really contribute anything lately (last couple months), I do try to browse through and mark up the posts that I think were particularly well-written or helpful.

    Frankly, I don't give a shit about XP. The points don't make you a better coder. They don't increase your status with the opposite sex (that I know of). You can't redeem them for cash. Anyone who cares about the means more than the ends on Perl Monks is completely missing the point (pun NOT intended).

    There will necessarily be some so-called monks who lose sight of the fact that this is a community, not a contest. Unfortunately, there's not much you can do about it, except limit the XP received. As long as idiots think they are getting -something- for nothing, whether or not that -something- is utterly worthless, you'll have XP hogs. I've actually said before that I support XP based on reputation. Theoretically, an XP hog could go undercover by only and often posting funny responses to polls and randomly voting up other people's posts. XP hogs are defined by motivation, not by numbers.

    Yes, I realize there are no constructive ideas in this post. I'm just venting a little frustration. But feel free to go look at my user page. I'll summarize it -- writeups 28, most of them not recent. XP, 160-something, most of them spent on chromatic and btrott who almost always have more than one way to do it.

    I have always liked this site, and I would like to continue to have choice and freedom in posting as little or as much as I want to, and voting as little or as much as I want to.

    e-mail neshura ::Anarchists, divide!::

RE: Experience System
by perlmonkey (Hermit) on Apr 27, 2000 at 04:37 UTC
    Yah! Just like that lazy bastard merlyn!

    (Um ... that was a joke)

    Basically I disagree. Getting experience for voting adds just enough motivation to the process for people to actually participate. And the more participation the better! Otherwise it would be like US presidential elections where not even half the population votes! And voting on comments should be no where near as significant, so the incentive is fun to have.

    Also having good ideas and recognizing good ideas are totally seperate concepts. A newbie might not have good ideas or at least not be able to explain them, but they should be able to recognize (and vote on) good ideas or good explanations. And they are gaining *real* perl experience for thinking about the responses. It makes sense to give monk XP for that I think.

    It seems fair to give a 33% as btrott said, but definately keep some percentage.

    Actually I think it would be good to increase the number of votes. I see a lot of people I would like to vote for that have very good ideas but I only get so few votes. But I guess keeping the limit as it is makes you think a little harder about who you vote for or against.

    That is my 1/2 a cent.
      I think experience for voting should be retained.
      It is nice to have a site that can value the participation of those who may not be so vocal, and allow them to feel more an active part of the site.

      I am not a great fan of the bonus for unloading all your votes in a day. Some days, I just do not read enough good posts. even with rewarding good questions as well as good answers. (not because there arent any but because I do not have time) In this situation it is tempting just to throw votes at anything just to gain more XP, but I manage to resist. It would be better just to give out the 75% per vote.

      While we are talking about the XP system, I don't like the inherent randomness of it. Just give .75 XP for each vote cast and be done with it. (Yay determinisim!)

      If anything I think the experience gained from posting is too much. Experience gained from a post should be soley tied to the reputation that it recieves. Thus useless posts that stay at 0 gain no XP for the writer.
      As it is I could go round posting "me too"'s to plenty of articles, which doesn't really add anything to the site, but each would gain me +1 XP.

      Overall I think it is good that this site has things pretty much under control, and we can just sit around quibbling about refinements. We probably should make the most of it before we have to spend all our votes -1'ing hot grits :)

      As a side point, it is interesting to note people's arguments and compare that to their number of posts :)

      I don't know about increasing the number of votes -- I find it hard enough to find five things worthy of my vote. :)

      However, the basic premise of granting experience for voting encourages new monks to seek out new nodes and to boldly go where... Ahem...

      But, then again, if monks just vote to vote...

      I better stop now -- this smacks of recursion.

RE: Experience System
by chromatic (Archbishop) on Apr 27, 2000 at 07:31 UTC
    btrott and turnstep are certainly good contributors, and they deserve every bit of experience they have. (I like to think that some of my esoteric hackeries are worth a few points here and there, too.)

    Finding a handful of good nodes to vote up was a problem up until a few weeks ago, but with the influx of new people (thanks, Hemos) there are plenty of writeups every day.

    Besides that, you could always go look at some of our early, early answers and reward those of us who have been here from the beginning. Beyond a certain point, experience doesn't mean a whole lot anymore.

      chromatic wrote:
      > Finding a handful of good nodes to vote up was a > problem up until a few weeks ago, but with the > influx of new people (thanks, Hemos) there are > plenty of writeups every day.
      Actually, this is really true, and I meant to comment on this but forgot--there have been a *lot* more nodes, notes, etc. lately, and there's been a lot of really good stuff posted; so I'm hoping that, to a certain degree, some of the issues plaid brought up (and with which I agreed) will go/have gone away, sort of.
        That is interesting. I am fairly new here, so I just assumed the quality of content has been as strong as it is now. There is a lot of good stuff here.

        Im a recent convert from the order of /. but I have now realized that perlism is my true calling.

        I just want to say that everyone contributing to this site is awesome. Some phenominal work has been done, and I am extremely impressed with everything.
RE: Experience System
by turnstep (Parson) on Apr 28, 2000 at 00:59 UTC
    Just to throw another log in the fire...

    This *was* an issue, but I don't think it still is, as there are more new nodes that anyone can vote on daily - which is good, because if you have 5 votes and there are 25 new nodes, you tend to dole them out more wisely. Of course, I tend to spend most of my votes nowadays marking down empty posts, trying to decrease the signal/noise ratio...

    I wish I could hack at the code for this site sometimes:

    unless (length($newnode)) { &ErrorPage("Sorry, not enough content. Please try again."); exit; }
      I've noticed there is no way to cancel a post once you've started. I think this may lead to some of the empty or pointless posts.
      For example, what if I decide half way through this post that I don't really want to click 'stumbit'... then what? An empty post appears.
RE: Experience System
by toadi (Chaplain) on Apr 28, 2000 at 10:51 UTC
    Like the idea of the XP. It's a nice feature and stimulates the people top post.
    Actually when there's no extra stimulans to vote: NOBODY WILL VOTE!! Except some people.
    Now more people are voting an are stimulated in doing so.
    No system is perfect!! When dealing with people there will always be people who try to find holes are using things for the wrong reasons.
    Considering I only joined a few days ago, with the XP I feel part of the monks. And I think that's the general idea of the perlmonks.

    Think the system is just fine like it is.
    My opinions may have changed,
    but not the fact that I am right
RE: Experience System
by Simplicus (Monk) on Apr 28, 2000 at 17:38 UTC
    I agree that 50% of the number of votes seems high just for using all the available votes. But I also think it wierd that you can get a point just for saying "thank you" to someone who helped you with a question.
    I think that if points are going to be given, they should be given based on merit, not on simply excercising your right to vote or posting a message that says "thanks."
    Just my 1/50th of a dollar.
      You are correct in expressing a concern about getting XP for dropping a line of thanks. XP should be given out for good posts, not just junk. However, the civility of someone saying thanks for an answer given is worth something to the person who took the time to ponder the question, formulate, and explain his answer. I have dropped a simple 'thank-you' out of sheer politeness, not because I wanted a XP. So how do you balance it? Message the person in the Chatterbox? That seems like a very good method; unless the person does not wish to be intruded upon that way. Looks like plain common sense and decency should dictate what warrants creating a node. Besides, there is always the -5XP for one being pulled. But surely we are all cool folks here in the Monastary *smile*
RE: Experience System
by toadi (Chaplain) on Apr 29, 2000 at 16:15 UTC
    another comment on voting just because you have more votes doesn't mean you have to vote +
    on nodes that don't deserve it. Maybe you could give them a -.
    Good perlmonks need more votes so they can - rate some notes to. Because some
    nodes give wrong answers!
    My opinions may have changed,
    but not the fact that I am right

RE: Experience System
by btrott (Parson) on Apr 27, 2000 at 03:41 UTC
    Yeah, I agree, basically. The ratio of XPs between votes you make yourself and votes others make on your posts is too high, and in my opinion on the wrong end. I like the 25% chance of getting XP when you vote, but I think the 50% of total votes if all votes are used per day is too high.

    Don't get me wrong, I love getting XP just because I've voted :), but I just don't think it's quite right in terms of what I take the XP system to mean/indicate. That 50% should be decreased, and I think that the 33% of getting XP when someone votes + on one of your nodes should perhaps be increased to even it out a little.

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