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Politeness (to one another) is a virtue

by sundialsvc4 (Abbot)
on Nov 21, 2011 at 13:56 UTC ( #939202=perlmeditation: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??

I think sometimes that we start taking this thing ... and our own opinions ... much too seriously, such that we do not stop and think twice that we are talking to real human beings.   And that real human beings have real feelings and therefore should be talked-to kindly whether we are talking about programming languages or not.

One of these days you lot are going to learn that sometimes the simplest answer is infact the best, that all these high-faluting technical wizardry incantations do nothing but slow Perl down by trying to make it be something that it was never intended to be, nor will it ever be.

Object orientation is programmer ########, a passing fad, and truly a bad idea that really does make programmers blind.

I pity you lot. I really do, the lengths you will go to try and force Perl be something other than Perl.... Why? Because after years of ####### ##### about how wonderful object orientation is, you've completely and utterly missed the point of Perl ...
... and the commentary goes on for another couple of offensive paragraphs, then catches its breath and does it all over again.

If the stated subject of the thread is, “How do I get the power of Moose without taking a 700% performance hit on hashrefs,” then that is the subject of that thread ... and nothing else.

We are not thirteen-year old kids in the locker room.   (There are ladies present, for that matter.)   We are professional adults who are here to discuss the Perl programming language.   Not to denigrate one another.   And, above all, not to do so with profanity and vulgarity.

No matter who you are, you’re not as smart as you think you are, and everyone is entitled to their professional opinion, about which you may professionally comment.

I am profoundly offended by these comments.   I am stunned to see them.   I don’t want to read such trash on my computer.   Ever.   Again.

  • Comment on Politeness (to one another) is a virtue

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Re: Politeness (to one another) is a virtue
by ramlight (Friar) on Nov 21, 2011 at 15:17 UTC
    While there are many places on the Internet insulting tirades are common, I've always thought of Perlmonks as one of those areas where civilized conduct is the norm and not the exception. Any group will have those who deviate from the common culture but here this type of language appears to relatively rare. So this is the place that I come first when I am interested in Perl discussions - either questions or just general information. (I find that I have learned much of what I know about Perl just from reading the questions and answers here.)

    Since I, for one truly value the way disagreements are, in general, handled here, I find such language disappointing (and in fact I, myself, find it highly offensive as well) but I don't see this becoming a part of the normal behavior here. And that is what not only keeps me coming back, but also tends to diminish the occurance of such posts.

    I do find, hidden behind the language, a concern for the common direction of programming and its implementation in Perl. I would rather concentrate on that and ignore the language of the post.

Re: Politeness (to one another) is a virtue
by marto (Archbishop) on Nov 21, 2011 at 14:06 UTC

    "We are not thirteen-year old kids in the locker room. (There are ladies present, for that matter.) We are professional adults who are here to discuss the Perl programming language."

    For all I know there are kids, or people who aren't computer professionals here asking for help and advice. I'm convinced that the latter use this site.

    Update: for the record, people not being computer professionals shouldn't be a prerequisite for using this site IMHO. People have to begin somewhere, I think here is a better place than most.

      for the record, people not being computer professionals shouldn't be a prerequisite for using this site IMHO

      Is this a dagger double negative i see before me? Don't they cancel each other out in the english language (similar to perl)? So wait, that would be... hmhmhmhmoneinmindhmhm... "people being computer professionals should be a prerequisite for using this site".

      Sorry, just pulling your leg. I just could not resist.

      Don't use '#ff0000':
      use Acme::AutoColor; my $redcolor = RED();
      All colors subject to change without notice.

        You're absolutely right, I should stop updating posts while talking to people on the train home, clearly it's not working out too well for me. The point I was trying to make was that IMHO this isn't just a site for "professionals".

Re: Politeness (to one another) is a virtue
by Argel (Prior) on Nov 21, 2011 at 21:55 UTC
    Current posting ability limitations seems to prove sundialsvc4's point for him. An individual (or maybe a couple if we throw the spammers in) behaving in a rude, uncouth, and immature manner to the point that it was becoming so disruptive to the site that drastic action was taken. The responses defending the immature behavior in this thread have been disappointing and just encourage the poor behavior. And if someone does not know how to say something in a more mature, professional manner, then we should be encouraging them to learn how to. This place would die off if it was up to some of you who want to keep looking the other way. Of course, too many people have already been looking the other way for the past several months, so it's no surprise we got to this point.

    Elda Taluta; Sarks Sark; Ark Arks
    My deviantART gallery

Re: Politeness (to one another) is a virtue
by derby (Abbot) on Nov 21, 2011 at 17:54 UTC

    Sorry sundialsvc4, when we start to limit what words we use, we start to limit what ideas we can express. Not everyone is endowed with a broad vocabulary. Sometimes being eloquent is helpful; other times, there is no substitue for the F-word. I was not offended by the OP language -- but I was saddened by the narrow-mindedness.


    PS if that post bothered you, never, ever, ever attend an mst talk :-)

      Agreed. I found the post easy to dismiss—especially without an identity attached. And you were too kind. "Narrow minded" ne "wrong." OO is a fad in the same way women wearing pants is; only to a bigot.

      What narrow mindedness?

        OO is ... a passing fad

Re: Politeness (to one another) is a virtue
by jdrago999 (Pilgrim) on Nov 21, 2011 at 18:14 UTC

    As the OP from the thread you mentioned, I agree.

    That person who chose (and chooses again and again) to post as Anonymous Coward (if the shoe fits, wear it) could have driven the conversation completely off-topic.

    Fortunately those who had something useful to contribute to the discussion managed to do so, and I learned about something I was previously unaware of (Mouse::XS).
    Mission Accomplished.

    Perhaps instead of using PerlMonks for personal therapy, these downtrodden, socially-inept folks could go to a qualified therapist? Or we could simply not post things that we wouldn't CC our mothers on?

      Or we could simply not post things that we wouldn't CC our mothers on?

      I don't know Your Mother, but for sure, you don't know mine :)

        Seriously. If you need to be a pain, go to 4chan where it's expected.

Re: Politeness (to one another) is a virtue
by perl.j (Pilgrim) on Nov 22, 2011 at 01:35 UTC

    ...thirteen-year old kids...professional adults who are here to discuss the Perl programming language.

    Ummm... I'm thirteen


      Welcome, welcome, good sir or madam, and let the record show that I was about your age when the computer bug took a very-delightful hold of me and has happily-changed my life ever since.   Please understand, therefore, that I meant (and mean) no disrespect either to you or to your present age ... which, to me, is “neither here nor there.”   You are as much a member of this professional community as is anyone and everyone else who is here or who has ever been here.   However, I do feel that I should apologize to you, on behalf of this community, that you happened to stumble upon grown-ups (who should have known better) acting like this in public places.   Please excuse us.   May it never happen again.

      “And now, please, back to your regularly scheduled programming-language.   These aren’t the ’droids you’re looking for.   Move along...   Move along...”

        No need to apologize. But yes, Perlmonks greatest feature is also it's greatest flaw. The fact that discussions are aloud is great, but just as stated (somewhere) in the StackOverflow FAQ, it diminishes a community. I am not saying end discussion on PM. I am saying nothing near that. What I am saying is that you must respect your fellow Monks. Also, you should not be allowed to post as an Anonymous Monk, as this is where most of the trolls are.
Re: Politeness (to one another) is a virtue
by JavaFan (Canon) on Nov 21, 2011 at 21:26 UTC
    I am profoundly offended by these comments.
    To quote John Cleese: you don't have the right to not be offended.

    Seriously, if you feel offended by the things you quote, I think you need professional help. And I seriously recommend you to do away with all computers, and when you read the newspaper, to skip the "letters to the editor" section.

    None of the things you quote is directed to you -- or even directed to anyone or any specific group. Anyone who feels offended and doesn't want to feel offended by it should look at himself, instead of being dramatic on a public forum.

Re: Politeness (to one another) is a virtue
by Anonymous Monk on Nov 21, 2011 at 14:35 UTC
    I am profoundly offended by these comments.

    You would appoint yourself the arbiter of good taste and enforce your sensibilities on all who come here?

    I donít want to read such trash on my computer. Ever. Again.

    You could add etc. to your nannyware blacklist and hang out at

    Or just disconnect.

      Which part of the text quoted in the OP did you find acceptable civilized behavior?

      For me, none of it.

      Improve your skills with Modern Perl: the free book.


        Aside from a few mildly dirty words the biggest offense of that comment seems to be the opposition to OOP.

        Your feigned outrage has been noted. Please remember it the next time you consider hand holding a troll for an extended period of time.

Re: Politeness (to one another) is a virtue
by Anonymous Monk on Nov 21, 2011 at 15:12 UTC
    Get over it
Re: Politeness (to one another) is a virtue
by Logicus on Nov 22, 2011 at 02:36 UTC

    This is what I mean about the Anonymous Monk feature being wide open to abuse. I would suspect that now that I no longer frequently post here, whoever the __YOU__ character is that was trolling me constantly has turned his attention to new victims.

    I actually happen to agree somewhat with the sentiments expressed as I feel somewhat allergic to OO in general, and indeed that general dislike for all things OO was one of the things which attracted me to Perl so I could avoid ever having to work with it. (or so I thought)

    I also think that Q.I.S will not have any sort of equivalent to OO, an idea I have expressed previously to an audience apparently generally unwilling to even think about why I think that to be the likely case. (yes I do have reasons)

    When I read the comment I felt like it was designed to look like I had written it and I felt sure that I was going to get the blame if anyone picked up on the above points and noticed they are reminiscent of arguments I have made before.

    The comment was not entered by me, and all I have to say is that this whole thread, plus the extra responses made by the anonymous coward(s), prove the point I have been trying to make about the anonymous monk feature and are a fine justification for that feature being excluded over on 'nights.

    Oh P.s... sundial, are you the user who signed up as humilityisavirtue to attack my site? Or is that just coincidental?

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