Beefy Boxes and Bandwidth Generously Provided by pair Networks
laziness, impatience, and hubris
 
PerlMonks  

Re^3: Put some of the posting guidelines directly above the posting form:

by ww (Archbishop)
on Dec 04, 2011 at 15:27 UTC ( #941698=note: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??


in reply to Re^2: Put some of the posting guidelines directly above the posting form:
in thread Put some of the posting guidelines directly above the posting form:

For me (and I probably should have made this clearer in my prior), your "nearly-but-not-quite code solution" is crucial... and much to be desired! It's a key distinguising difference between teaching how to learn (in the precise manner you discuss) and a complete solution (the site is also littered with these) which -- I fear -- rarely teaches anything other than, perhaps, "Wow, PM's a great place from which to cargo-cult code."

And, yes, a plague on the houses of those who consider noob questions "trivial" or beneath their dignity.

But IMO, and as as educated_foo said earlier, the "tireless scolds" who (in many, but not all cases) remind noobs to demonstrate that they've not asked a question without trying to learn by trying to solve their puzzle, themselves. Agreed, "RTFM" without a link is worthless and discourages those new to the site or to Perl. But a (pleasantly phrased) "RTFM type of reply with a link to the relevant site docs or Perl docs seems to me to be at least as likely to instantiate a teachable moment as almost anything we can do to help.

  • Comment on Re^3: Put some of the posting guidelines directly above the posting form:

Replies are listed 'Best First'.
Re^4: Put some of the posting guidelines directly above the posting form:
by BrowserUk (Pope) on Dec 04, 2011 at 15:48 UTC
    a (pleasantly phrased) "RTFM type of reply with a link to the relevant site docs or Perl docs seems to me to be at least as likely to instantiate a teachable moment as almost anything we can do to help.

    You are assuming a) the OP hasn't already RTFMd; b) that if they do RTFM they will see the solution to their problem.

    With at least half, and probably more, of the questions I ask here -- not to mention wrong answers I given to others questions -- don't come down to my not knowing where to look, nor even to my not having recently re-read the appropriate section; but rather to my misinterpreting what I've read.

    If I've misunderstood the docs, re-reading them is unlikely to shake that misinterpretation. But a worked example that demonstrates it, will.


    With the rise and rise of 'Social' network sites: 'Computers are making people easier to use everyday'
    Examine what is said, not who speaks -- Silence betokens consent -- Love the truth but pardon error.
    "Science is about questioning the status quo. Questioning authority".
    In the absence of evidence, opinion is indistinguishable from prejudice.

    The start of some sanity?

      Well, actually, I don't think I am assuming that the poster hasn't read the FM; rather, I am suggesting that a post whose answer is obvious -- from the documentation's text or examples (IOW, in the FM) -- strongly suggests that the poster has not RTFMed (or has not RTFMed will diligence). Yeah, that's a lot of qualifiers... almost to the point of making a distinction too fine to worry about...

      But you are not the usual poster of what I call 'gimme' questions -- questions that are or are tantamount to "Please write my code for me;" "please do my work for me;" and "I'm ignorant of the existence of the FM." I think the distinction is obvious... and if you post one that falls in the class to which I'm objecting, then I'm going to assume that the issue is a momentary case of brain-lock, not to laziness.

      And a request: within the class of well-written docs -- that is, those with decent examples and explanations -- re-examine your last para. Lord knows, I'm as likely or more so than most, to blindspot myself while reading a doc, but (YMMV) find that re-reading a well-written doc ofter provides a face-palm moment when the scales are lifted away.

        I am suggesting that a post whose answer is obvious -- from the documentation's text or examples (IOW, in the FM) -- strongly suggests that the poster has not RTFMed (or has not RTFMed will diligence).

        In this context, the difference between perceiving a suggestion and an assumption, besides being too marginal to call or argue about, still misses the possibility that the OP has read the documentation and has simply misunderstood it or just didn't understand it at all.

        I think that it is all too easy for those with long-term familiarity with the Perl docs to assume they are the very model of suffice and clarity, forgetting the struggles they themselves once had with them.

        When I first came to Perl, despite 20 odd years of experience of other languages on several platforms, I found many parts of Perldoc to be quite opaque. Particularly because much of it assumes access to and familiarity with POSIX APi documentation. The assumption that "xxxxx() works the same way as xxxx() (2)" will mean something is rife in some parts of the docs.

        And there are other parts that still go right over my head. Eg. The use of \G (and (?>...) for that matter ) in regexes. If I sit and read the docs and play in my REPL, I can usually, eventually make these constructs deliberately do something of my choosing. Usually. But you'll rarely if ever see me use them to solve real problems. I've simply never found the analogy or example that allows me to assimilate them into my way of thinking. As such, I've found other ways of solving the problems they are there to solve, and they do not figure into my approach to solving problems.

        Concluding that an OPs failure to understand the relevant part of the docs is due to a lack of "due diligence", is assumptive in the extreme.


        With the rise and rise of 'Social' network sites: 'Computers are making people easier to use everyday'
        Examine what is said, not who speaks -- Silence betokens consent -- Love the truth but pardon error.
        "Science is about questioning the status quo. Questioning authority".
        In the absence of evidence, opinion is indistinguishable from prejudice.

        The start of some sanity?

Log In?
Username:
Password:

What's my password?
Create A New User
Node Status?
node history
Node Type: note [id://941698]
help
Chatterbox?
and the web crawler heard nothing...

How do I use this? | Other CB clients
Other Users?
Others taking refuge in the Monastery: (5)
As of 2021-06-18 12:06 GMT
Sections?
Information?
Find Nodes?
Leftovers?
    Voting Booth?
    What does the "s" stand for in "perls"? (Whence perls)












    Results (89 votes). Check out past polls.

    Notices?