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Make it possible to see vote totals again

by educated_foo (Vicar)
on Dec 27, 2011 at 12:15 UTC ( #945183=monkdiscuss: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??

This is annoyingly paternalistic:
Occasionally, you may see "Reputation: 12 (no significant downvotes)?"; this indicates that either there were no downvotes or there was an insignificant number of them. You are not shown how many because focusing on the occasional downvote (per node) is usually a mistake. A node having a small number of downvotes usually has more to do with the person(s) doing the voting than with the node. Such downvotes could simply be the result of a mistake, someone having a bad day, someone's pet peeve, etc.
You used to be able to see the exact vote totals; now you can't.

If I want to know that a few people downvote all my nodes, or that one person dislikes a response I gave (e.g. because the OP found it unhelpful), I should be able to do so. I would prefer that one could see who voted which way on a node, since that would encourage careful voting, but that will never happen here. Still, can we please at least go back to the way it was before?

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Re: Make it possible to see vote totals again
by ww (Archbishop) on Dec 27, 2011 at 12:34 UTC
    No downvote on the OP, but I'm inclined to the opposite point of view.

    Considering the quality of questions, discourse, and attention to the site's documents on its standards, I can imagine that reverting to full disclosue of vote counts would merely inspire a plethora of whining in the CB and 'plaints in the threads... neither of which is particularly constructive or useful.

    And tye has made it fairly clear, in response to one such complaint, that he (and other godes?) do watch for systematic downvoting of the kind you mention.

      I can only agree. Here's my rule of thumb:

      If your posts are good enough, you will have a positive score on them. If your posts are - let's call them "suboptimal" - then you probably deserve a negative score.

      Even if one or two persons regularly downvote you unfairly, you'll still get your XP. If you really get systematically downvoted, you should call the gods for help (and/or rethink your attitude).

      All in all, i prefer to cast my votes anonymous (e.g. only known to the gods, the vote fairy and the reaper).

      BREW /very/strong/coffee HTTP/1.1
      Host: goodmorning.example.com
      
      418 I'm a teapot
Re: Make it possible to see vote totals again
by Old_Gray_Bear (Bishop) on Dec 27, 2011 at 17:44 UTC
    First -- I a think that showing the aggregate rather than the +/- detail is a good thing. If you are writing good notes, then the occasional (usually accidental) down vote is not a problem.

    But, I do have an issue with the aggregate system: Occasionally I will up vote a new node and the score that gets displayed is zero. That means that before my +1 the score was -1. I do not consider 50% of the votes an "insignificant number".

    ----
    I Go Back to Sleep, Now.

    OGB

      Howdy!

      On the other hand, two votes is not a significant number either.

      yours,
      Michael
Re: Make it possible to see vote totals again
by Argel (Prior) on Dec 27, 2011 at 21:09 UTC
    You can probably partially blame this one on me. I had someone downvote a post and could not figure out why, so asked. The discussion (if it can be called that) was not very productive, and I think the reason was I posted a followup several days later. The point of this rule is that you should not be worried about one or two down votes because there is a good chance there is nothing significant about them. Keep in mind that noderep is about the overall quality of the node, so getting too hung up on one vote like I did is missing the point. The current implementation is a great reminder of that and I'm fine with it.

    Elda Taluta; Sarks Sark; Ark Arks
    My deviantART gallery

Re: Make it possible to see vote totals again
by jdporter (Canon) on Dec 27, 2011 at 18:34 UTC
      Maybe -- I mean that the new display treats users like children by assuming that they are better off not having certain information because they "can't handle the truth."

      (Did I downvote you because you disagreed with me, upvote you for making a good point, or not vote at all? You have no idea!)

        I mean that the new display treats users like children by assuming that they are better off not having certain information because they "can't handle the truth."

        To some extent, I suppose. But it was more that we treat users like children because a bunch of us were quite tired of the many years of endless whining like little children that users were doing over and over again (but that still misses much of the picture). But I suspect that proof of childishness won't ease your annoyance with perceived paternalism. After all, surely you aren't a child. I don't actually personally think you are a child. But your node actually demonstrates how you are likely a very good example of somebody who should not be obsessing about details about these very small numbers of downvotes on many of your nodes.

        But, before we get into that, let us dispense with the most important point:

        You used to be able to see the exact vote totals; now you can't.

        Utter bullocks. In point of fact, the public call to avoid showing "insignificant" downvotes predates the implementation of the ability to see anything but the singular sum by years. The only site change that was made was to show more information (and that change was made years ago).

        So, now that your primary thesis has been declared in error, are we done? I guess not.

        This is annoyingly paternalistic

        The frequent whining was more annoying, IMO. If you can get everybody to always act like mature adults (which means no whining, IMO), then we can start treating everybody like mature adults in more ways. Or, if you can devise a clever CAPTCHA to distinguishing those "who can handle the (useless and misleading) 'truth'" (adults like you) from those who will whine about it...

        In the mean time, one of the things I'm most happy with in regard to site changes is that it feels to me like there is much less whining about downvoting in the last couple of years (most of the mentions of downvoting in the past 2+ years have been actually due to complaining about trolling and spam, not whining resulting from tiny numbers of downvotes). And I think some of that is the result of a quite a few mostly quite minor changes that I have helped to make that I guessed could reduce how much the site encourages such whining. I'm actually a bit shocked at how well it (and other things) seems to have worked on that front.

        - tye        

        Oh. Maybe.

        paternalistic: benevolent but sometimes intrusive

        patronizing: treating others with condescension

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