Re^5: 20 most important Perl Best Practices

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Re^6: 20 most important Perl Best Practices by pemungkah (Priest) on Aug 26, 2012 at 21:03 UTC
Looking at that strip and trying to imagine I was a female programmer, I feel uncomfortable. Cf. Schwern's keynote. We can do better.	[reply]
Re^7: 20 most important Perl Best Practices by topher (Scribe) on Aug 30, 2012 at 16:16 UTC
Agreed. What bothers me the most is that in situations where someone is in the minority, they are already in a disadvantaged position to express a similar opinion. Most people don't like rocking the boat, they don't want to go against their peers, and they're slow to vocalize when they're uncomfortable, unhappy, or offended at something. Unless they get really angry, they're not likely to say anything. We've already had a woman note that she was bothered by the comic. If that's the case, I expect that there are many more who felt the same and didn't speak up. Respect. Common courtesy. Appropriate behavior. These aren't complicated concepts. We need to remember that what is acceptable in some situations may not be in others. Sexualized programming jokes are a good example of something not acceptable in this environment, IMO.	[reply]
Re^7: 20 most important Perl Best Practices by Anonymous Monk on Aug 27, 2012 at 00:12 UTC
Looking at that strip and trying to imagine I was a female programmer, I feel uncomfortable. Quick, disconnect before it gets worse!	[reply]
Re^7: 20 most important Perl Best Practices by aaron_baugher (Curate) on Aug 27, 2012 at 02:16 UTC
Imagining being a female makes me uncomfortable too. Or is it imagining being a programmer? Aaron B. Available for small or large Perl jobs; see my home node.	[reply]
Re^8: 20 most important Perl Best Practices by pemungkah (Priest) on Aug 30, 2012 at 23:46 UTC
Actually, imagining being female doesn't make me uncomfortable at all. As a software developer, it's part of my job to think imaginatively about what someone else might want or not want. How can you manage to develop usable and enjoyable software for someone else if you can't imagine what they'd want - or if you dismiss their desires and preferences? Is it impossible for a male developer to try to imagine the effect of wording or graphics and think, "Hmm, if I were a woman, that might make me feel uncomfortable or talked-down-to; I'd better change that"? I don't think it is. Have you ever caught yourself saying "nobody would want that" or "nobody would do that"? Quoting Michael Bolton's Rapid Software Testing class, "nobody would do that" means "nobody that I know, and that I like, would do that". Posting jokes equivalencing software features to large breasts and saying "nobody would really find that offensive" means you're thinking about the entire audience of people as consisting of a group in which someone who would be hurt, upset, or angry doesn't even exist. I'm no angel. I screw up with this stuff too. But when I see there's a screwup, I try to kindly say, "I think you should seriously consider that what you said is be a screwup." If it was me, then I should say "I screwed up, I have no excuse, and I'm sorry."	[reply]
Re^9: 20 most important Perl Best Practices by BrowserUk (Patriarch) on Sep 01, 2012 at 16:40 UTC
Re^10: 20 most important Perl Best Practices by preaction (Beadle) on Sep 01, 2012 at 18:16 UTC
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Re^10: 20 most important Perl Best Practices by pemungkah (Priest) on Sep 02, 2012 at 08:04 UTC
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Re^7: 20 most important Perl Best Practices by BrowserUk (Patriarch) on Aug 26, 2012 at 22:04 UTC
trying to imagine I was a female programmer, I feel uncomfortable. Uncomfortable about what? The mention of "boob job"? Breast enhancements exist. The term "boob job"? A little casual research amongst my wife. my 3 sisters, and 5 nieces ranging in age from 17 to 64 elicits that they all refer to breast enhancements as "boob jobs". The idea that for some (men and women) breast enhancement can enhance the attractiveness of the recipient? Self explanatory. The idea that it doesn't work the same for everybody or every body. Viva la Difference. I find your construed objection to the cartoon, unrealistic. With the rise and rise of 'Social' network sites: 'Computers are making people easier to use everyday' Examine what is said, not who speaks -- Silence betokens consent -- Love the truth but pardon error. "Science is about questioning the status quo. Questioning authority". In the absence of evidence, opinion is indistinguishable from prejudice. RIP Neil Armstrong boob jobs	[reply]
Re^8: 20 most important Perl Best Practices by Ovid (Cardinal) on Aug 29, 2012 at 10:50 UTC
I still remember the time I had a presentation with some content that I thought was funny, but just to make sure, I asked several female friends, all of whom thought it was OK. I still received some rather negative feedback from women I had never heard of. Surprise! It turns out that the people I know are, well, people that I know and we're more likely to understand where one is coming from. What I, and all of my female friends, missed, was the issue of context. Just because there's a joke I can tell in front of my friends doesn't mean that it's appropriate for for a large, anonymous audience. They don't know who I am, they don't know what I think, and it's quite reasonable that someone may be offended by a "let's judge Demi Moore by the size of her breasts" cartoon. I honestly don't understand why more people don't get this idea: public and private behavior are not the same and should not be the same. I have a friend in the UK who greets me by saying "hiya c*nt". There's a private joke behind that, but he would never dream of greeting me like that in front of a bunch of people he doesn't know because it's not appropriate. Cheers, Ovid The official Perl 6 wiki.	[reply]
Re^9: 20 most important Perl Best Practices by BrowserUk (Patriarch) on Aug 30, 2012 at 17:16 UTC
Ghosts out of the Woodwork by chromatic (Archbishop) on Aug 30, 2012 at 17:37 UTC
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Re^10: 20 most important Perl Best Practices by tinita (Parson) on Aug 31, 2012 at 01:08 UTC
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Re^9: 20 most important Perl Best Practices by BrowserUk (Patriarch) on Aug 31, 2012 at 18:24 UTC
Re^10: 20 most important Perl Best Practices by Ovid (Cardinal) on Sep 04, 2012 at 05:26 UTC
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Re^9: 20 most important Perl Best Practices by BrowserUk (Patriarch) on Aug 29, 2012 at 11:01 UTC
Re^10: 20 most important Perl Best Practices by Aristotle (Chancellor) on Aug 29, 2012 at 11:50 UTC
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Re^10: 20 most important Perl Best Practices by runrig (Abbot) on Aug 31, 2012 at 05:11 UTC
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Re^9: 20 most important Perl Best Practices by Gavin (Archbishop) on Aug 30, 2012 at 08:41 UTC
Re^9: 20 most important Perl Best Practices by runrig (Abbot) on Aug 31, 2012 at 15:58 UTC
Re^10: 20 most important Perl Best Practices by Anonymous Monk on Aug 31, 2012 at 18:13 UTC
Re^8: 20 most important Perl Best Practices by tinita (Parson) on Aug 29, 2012 at 11:56 UTC
let me tell you something. in my experience, if women start a discussion about something they feel uncomfortable or are offended, they are called feminist fanatists or something like that. yes, that happens. women get harrassed by phone and email after such discussions. yes, that happens (fortunately not to me yet, but to a friend). it is not easy for the minority of women to speak up here, also because of such reasons. believe it or not. people are harrassed because they are women, gay, handicapped or whatever. now a guy speaks up, and he doesn't even take the right to speak for all women, he just says what he thinks he would feel. and suddenly all hell breaks loose. WTF? Now I add a comment that I in fact feel uncomfortable. and what happens? nothing. you don't care. and for Jenda I'm the one closed minded women. So women can't speak up easily, because they are afraid of being called fanatists. and men can't speak up for women either. great! I now do speak up. I just don't want to see or hear such pubertal jokes here, and it's now up to you to call me fanatist, closed minded or whatever.	[reply]
Re^9: 20 most important Perl Best Practices by BrowserUk (Patriarch) on Aug 29, 2012 at 12:39 UTC
Re^10: 20 most important Perl Best Practices by tinita (Parson) on Aug 29, 2012 at 13:03 UTC
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Re^8: 20 most important Perl Best Practices by davorg (Chancellor) on Aug 29, 2012 at 09:14 UTC
Do you think that women are lying when they say that they are driven away from geek communities because of lame frat-boy humour like this? Or do you not care that this might be the case? -- See the Copyright notice on my home node. Perl School	[reply]
Re^9: 20 most important Perl Best Practices by BrowserUk (Patriarch) on Aug 29, 2012 at 09:42 UTC
Re^10: 20 most important Perl Best Practices by no longer just digit (Beadle) on Aug 29, 2012 at 11:58 UTC
Re^8: 20 most important Perl Best Practices by Aristotle (Chancellor) on Aug 29, 2012 at 09:55 UTC
Straw man much? Did he mention the term �boob job� at all? It�s the strip�s implied �aw yeah Demi Moore, I get a boner when I think of her� (and more along those lines) that�s creepy � and I say this without even putting myself in the shoes of a woman reading the strip: even just as a man � dude, I don�t wanna know and I don�t want to be made a party to your fantasies without my consent. Keep it in your pants. To a woman I can only imagine it would feel 10× worse. None of that has anything to do with prudish objections to such as naughty language like tits or fucking. Makeshifts last the longest.	[reply]
Re^9: 20 most important Perl Best Practices by BrowserUk (Patriarch) on Aug 29, 2012 at 10:03 UTC
Re^10: 20 most important Perl Best Practices by Aristotle (Chancellor) on Aug 29, 2012 at 10:17 UTC
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Re^6: 20 most important Perl Best Practices by jffry (Hermit) on Aug 31, 2012 at 18:32 UTC
I'm offended that the worst cartoon I've ever read in my life is getting this much attention. If that poor author ever analyzes his access logs he might think he has hit pay dirt with that cartoon, and then he'll make more like that. Please Gawd no! I think it is UKB's civic duty to inform the author all those hits to that one cartoon are anomalous results of his sensitivity training here at PerlMonks.	[reply]
Re^7: 20 most important Perl Best Practices by BrowserUk (Patriarch) on Aug 31, 2012 at 18:53 UTC
Yet another ghost in the machine, playing the "offense" card for his own personal agenda. With the rise and rise of 'Social' network sites: 'Computers are making people easier to use everyday' Examine what is said, not who speaks -- Silence betokens consent -- Love the truth but pardon error. "Science is about questioning the status quo. Questioning authority". In the absence of evidence, opinion is indistinguishable from prejudice. RIP Neil Armstrong	[reply]
Re^6: 20 most important Perl Best Practices by greengaroo (Hermit) on Aug 24, 2012 at 03:32 UTC
:D ... thanks very much! Take my advice. I don't use it anyway. -- greengaroo	[reply]


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