in reply to Re^5: The Future of Perl 5
in thread The Future of Perl 5

We have a group of people doing bits of marketing for Perl and getting (small, but still) results from that, People like Mark Keating, Liz Mattijsen, Curtis Poe, and me. We have noticed a changing image of Perl at open source conferences: until 5 years ago, we often got biting remarks like "Perl is dead/dying" and "really, people still work with Perl?". We hardly ever get such remarks anymore. Maybe on acidic places like Reddit. It may even sound unbelievable to you, but nowadays we are even getting compliments because of the good things that happen with both Perl 5 and Perl 6 and the nice marketing stuff we hand out and the positive vibes that come out of all our volunteers at such conferences. Therefore it is frustrating and demotivational that it's mostly Perl-people who still make extremely negative remarks about Perl (5|6). If you love Perl so much, could you please try to make things better instead of worse? I don't see the use nor need to say such bad things to/about people who work hard to try to make Perl better, and give Perl a better name.

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Re^7: The Future of Perl 5
by Anonymous Monk on Aug 21, 2018 at 15:54 UTC
    Thank you for all the work you do for Perl. May I suggest that Perl-people who make "extremely negative remarks about Perl" are not actually Perl-people but trolls posing as Perl-people? Some people promote their agenda by disrupting societies perceived as competitive, with a big smile on an unfriendly face. We need solidarity in the Programming Republic of Perl!

    Statements like "Perl is dead/dying" and "really, people still work with Perl?" are so stupid they should be met with laughter and reciprocal jokes about the troll and whatever language their boss forces them to use. If they want war, give 'em hell. Just write apps in Perl that no one can live without, it's that easy!

    One big difference between Perl's good old days and today is the mass commercialization of computer software. The average JAPH used to be a friendly tinkerer with a programming hobby. Now they have degrees in computer science, obsess over theoretical constructs, and have a lot to lose if their favorite language doesn't pay the rent. So we have vicious language wars...

      The Perl community claims to be inclusive, at the same time we are rejecting a big part of the system.

      The question is not if you want to make money or not, the question is how to create a good climate for fertile co-existence of all groups.

      To give you an example of dogmatic thinking: In Granada I suggested in an open discussion that we need more elearning material.

      This was immediately confused and rejected as a form of "certification" which is a taboo from the MS flame war area.

      Anything remotely similar is haram, apostates must be stoned and beheaded.

      The community seems as open minded as possible in a 90s mustached nerd hippie context!

      Cheers Rolf
      (addicted to the Perl Programming Language :)
      Wikisyntax for the Monastery FootballPerl is like chess, only without the dice

        we need more elearning material

        I'm nor entirely sure what you mean by that. For Perl 5 there are plenty of online learning resources: e.g. you can download the 2014 version of Modern Perl. Also MJD's Higher Order Perl can be downloaded.

        Similarly for Perl 6 there are quite a few online resources.

        Could you elaborate on what you mean with "elearning material" ?

      May I suggest that Perl-people who make "extremely negative remarks about Perl" are not actually Perl-people but trolls posing as Perl-people?

      I don't think you should; I think it's perfectly fine to think one language that calls itself Perl is useful while another language that calls itself Perl is a dead end. That exposes the problem nicely.

        That exposes the problem nicely.

        Glad to see you've been able to make your point. Again.

Re^7: The Future of Perl 5
by BrowserUk (Pope) on Aug 27, 2018 at 02:39 UTC
    until 5 years ago, we often got biting remarks like "Perl is dead/dying" and "really, people still work with Perl?". We hardly ever get such remarks anymore.

    The only thing worse than being talked about, is not being talked about.

    When you start gauging the interest and market potential of a product by whether anyone can be bothered to say anything negative about it; you've lost the battle.


    With the rise and rise of 'Social' network sites: 'Computers are making people easier to use everyday'
    Examine what is said, not who speaks -- Silence betokens consent -- Love the truth but pardon error.
    "Science is about questioning the status quo. Questioning authority". The enemy of (IT) success is complexity.
    In the absence of evidence, opinion is indistinguishable from prejudice. Suck that fhit
      I also wrote this: "It may even sound unbelievable to you, but nowadays we are even getting compliments because of the good things that happen with both Perl 5 and Perl 6 and the nice marketing stuff we hand out and the positive vibes that come out of all our volunteers at such conferences."

      People can indeed be bothered to say something, and when they don't say negative stuff but very nice positive stuff, we are winning again. Both Perl 5 and Perl 6. Both instances of this year's (oh, of course also last year's) The Perl Conference (Salt Lake City and Glasgow) had a lot of newbies, they had a good time, gave the conferences good vibes, and even gave nice and interesting talks, also about completely new products, and new companies starting to use Perl. At non-Perl events, it is nice to hear about this as well, and about former Perl-users coming back to Perl, because Perl is interesting again. It could all be much better, but it could also be much much worse.

        Wendy, you and Liz are very active and public members of the Perl community.

        Liz published dozens of modules, you two are practically at every conference or workshop and co-sponsoring events.

        BrowserUK OTOH is practically anonymous. Nobody here knows who he is, if he ever released modules, blogged or attended conferences.

        He probably prefers to stay anonymous, because an notable percentage of his contributions here are emotional outbursts and personal attacks using foul language. But his "real life" reputation can't be damaged, unlike yours.

        He is though somehow respected for the huge number remaining technical postings, especially in the field of tuning Perl for speed. Resulting in a high XP-rating. (his Dr Jekyll side if you want)

        But most of the regulars stopped going into lengthy fights with Mr Hyde.

        I'm telling you this because you weren't that active here in the past.

        So better think twice who you are feeding instead of relaxing (and enjoying your whiskey. ;-)

        Cheers Rolf
        (addicted to the Perl Programming Language :)
        Wikisyntax for the Monastery FootballPerl is like chess, only without the dice