Re^2: How much Perl6 have we got?

[thor]

It is very simple to answer - we have most of it.

Yeah...simple indeed. Of course when someone says that "most" of something is done, there's an implication that whomever is working on it would have a reasonable estimation of a completion date. Moreover, if they have an estimated completion date, it's sometime in the near future. Perhaps I'm being cynical, but whenever I glance at "This week in Perl 6" on perl.com, there's some pretty fundamental stuff being ironed out still. Not that therey's anything wrong with that; it's a big project. You'll forgive me if I don't agree with your assessment of the situation.

This is also what keeps me away from Perl 6 except for curiosity. I want to wait until there's an official, 100% done version in my hands before I take on the task of learning anything of the language. Why? Right now, I have no guarantee that some feature isn't going to be completely re-written and/or obviated tomorrow. Again, I'm fine with this; Perl 6 is stil in the design stage...a stage in which things are supposed to change. However, my sanity doesn't play well with moving targets.

I'm also in awe of the Pugs project. Again, however, I don't want to write programs that are ahead of the runtime. That is to say that Pugs isn't a feature complete version of Perl 6. It can't be; Perl 6 isn't done. My luck being what it is, I'd write some program based on the specifications and Pugs will have not implemented some key feature of that program. I'm not saying that I'm sort of über coder, just saying that I'm unlucky. ;)

[stvn]

My luck being what it is, I'd write some program based on the specifications and Pugs will have not implemented some key feature of that program. I'm not saying that I'm sort of über coder, just saying that I'm unlucky. ;)

What is wrong with that? This type of thing has been driving the Pugs project from the very begining. I started writing (failing) tests based off the Synopsis in the early days of the project, and within days autrijus would have turned them into passing tests. Both chromatic and Darren Duncan and their work on the p6 versions of Test::Builder and Locale::KeyedText respectively, drove much of the early OO functionality in Pugs. The current work on the Javascript and Perl 5 backends have helped fuel autrijus's work on PIL (Pugs Intermediate Language) and my work on the Object MetaModel.

My point is really that Pugs is a different sort of project than your usual compiler/interpreter project. It is (in autrijus's words) optimized for fun. And autrijus has always said he does not intend Pugs to be "the" Perl 6, and one of the original goals of the project was to help iron out the design of Perl 6 itself by providing a reference implementation.

Another thing about Pugs is that all you need to do to get a commiter bits is ask, and all you need do to get your name in the AUTHORS file is contribute something (even commiting it yourself is not a requirement). No one is expected to contribute any more then they want to or can. Because after all, it's optimized for fun :)

[thor]

The thing is that I learn by doing. Most if not all of how I learned Perl 5 was trying out small snippets, seeing that my understanding was off, revising my understanding, rinse, lather, and repeat. I think that my frustration would grow and I'd end up giving it up anyways. I aplaud yours and everyone elses efforts. I'm sure that they help the Perl 6 folks immeasureably. It's not for me, however.

[TimToady]

And I just want to add that I think it's really important to continue to have a solid set of people sticking with Perl 5 for now. The people out front tend to be in it for the glory and the excitement, and that's wonderful, but the fact of the matter is that it takes all kinds of folks to make an army. Military campaigns are won or lost based mostly on how well the supply chains are guarded, and not so much on how many people are willing to charge up the hill and get cut to ribbons. Though we need some of those people too. And we also need to make allowances for the fact that the kind of people who are willing to be cut to pieces for the sake of their comrades may need to swagger around a bit before the big battle to work up their courage. :-)

Er, sorry, been reading too many WWII retrospectives lately, I guess...

[mdxi]

I concur. Watching the Lambdacamels go is fascinating (and humbling), but I've decided to wait for the Perl 6 version of the Llama before I try to start coding in it, or even worry about it anymore.

P.S. mad props for the Manowar sig

[TomDLux]

There's another way of looking at it .... if you code stuff in pugs, then you're way ahead of those who don't, as far as being Perl6-ready. Of course, i wouldn't advise coding anything intended for production, but it's worth exploring fun stuff in your spare time.