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laziness, impatience, and hubris


by jdporter (Canon)
on May 30, 2002 at 16:48 UTC ( #170442=user: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??

It's hardly debatable that we are indeed both (intolerant and capricious).
These are the consequences of having not rigorously defined policies and rules
and rather letting the community decide for itself what it tolerates or not,
and the makeup of the community being in a constant state of flux over time.

I'm not sure when I joined SiteDocClan, but my first edit to a group wiki was on 2003-08-27.

I'm not sure when I joined pmdev, but my first edit to a group wiki was on 2005-12-28 and I submitted my first patch on 2006-01-26.

I joined gods on 2015-06-21 (in the ineffably resplendent form called erzuuli).

Rooms in my treehouse:
Popular links on homenodes
Tutorials digest
Survey of POOP Modules
Some cb snippets
Restyling PerlMonks
Sitedoclet usage analysis
Scratchpads & Blogs:
pad for admin-related stuff
pad for pmdev-related stuff
pad for other stuff
User Posts
CPAN contribs

Some of my root (and root-like) posts you may find interesting:

PerlMonks for the Absolute Beginner
New Service: Thread Watcher
New Snippets Index
XY Problem
Where should I post Y?
jdporter's place in the name space
test of ancient magic
test this
Nodes 1 .. 1000
There is no Perl Illuminati
PerlMonks Memorial Garden

Also check out my Free Nodelet Hacks
Also check out  
(RFC) Arrays: A Tutorial/Reference
Tk Photo Slideshow, with scrolling and scaling
Simple Console Menuing System
Control and Query Win32 Services at the command line
Strategy Handles
Linked Lists With No Memory Leak
There's Only One Way To Do It
Read and write Windows "shortcut" links
Create and Pop Up Outlook Notes from Perl
IO::MultiHandle - Operate on multiple file handles as one
map-like hash iterator

Here are some links I keep handy in my Free Nodelet:

Free Nodelet Settings
User Settings
Display Settings
Nodelet Settings
log out
PerlMonks statistics
Message Inbox
last hour of cb
Full-Page Chat
Chatterbox statistics

Monks I've met in meatspace:

PerlMonks Quine:

perl -MLWP::Simple -e "getprint '; +displaytype=displaycode'"


Previously, I used this:

Between the mind which plans and the hands which build, there must be a mediator... and this mediator must be the heart.
This is a line (my own translation) from the classic movie Metropolis. Incidentally, my homenode pic above is a frame cap from this movie as well.

In the movie, the building of the mega-city Metropolis is likened to the legendary tower of Babel. This was intended as a warning: Knowing the fate which befell Babel, the builders of the present age should take care to avoid the same sins, and thus the same fate. Specifically, the builders of Babel lacked "heart" (a spirit of compassion and a willingness to compromise), and this resulted in a cataclysmic conflict between management and labor.

Most languages are like StackOverflow: I have a question, I want the best answer.
Perl is like PerlMonks: I have a doubt, I want to read an interesting discussion about it that is likely to go on a tangent. q-:

tye, in Re: What is PerlMonks? (why Perl)

<input type=submit value="border-width=d" " />

Posts by jdporter
History of PerlMonks' Perl News in Meditations
No replies — Read more | Post response
by jdporter
on May 04, 2021 at 16:37

    History of PerlMonks' Perl News

    Originally, the Perl News section of the site was not a place where ordinary monks could post. Rather, it was designed to be a local "feed" of Perl-related news extracted from another site. That other site was called Perl News, at

    Posts to the section were created in the name of a 'bot' account, perlnewsbot. (Presumably, perlnewsbot was the actual name of the automated background process. In all likelihood, it was vroom who created and ran the perlnewsbot.

    vroom announced New Perl News Section on 2000-07-21, and perlnewsbot made its first post that same day. was, of course, already in operation by then. the earliest snapshot in the Wayback Machine is dated 2000-01-05.

    *Confusingly, the perlnewsbot user account has a creation date of 2000-07-26 — several days after its first few posts. One possible explanation is as follows: Initially, posts were being inserted in the Perl News section by a different bot user or by some process outside of the perlmonks user-level framework. After the perlnewsbot user was created, the ownership of the prior existing posts was transferred to him. However, this is conjectural.

    perlnewsbot's run only lasted a few months, however.

    Its last post was on 2001-02-16, apparently having been halted even before went dark.

    The last post on was on 2001-03-18, with the following item:

    See use Perl;

    Perl News is going away soon (one might argue it already has :). use Perl is this site's sister site, having all the same news, plus reviews, articles, discussions, and more. The coincidence of the technical difficulties of this site and the imminent migration of use Perl to its new home makes now a good time to finalize the closing of Perl News.
    Indeed, barely a month later was gone.

    Even though - the site called use Perl; - was the ostensible replacement for, at least as a source of news, the perlnewsbot was never updated to pull news from

    (Interestingly, met a similar fate a few years later. The last post there, announcing its imminent shutdown, was on 2010-09-08.)

    vroom opened up the Perl News section for posting by ordinary users in late May of 2002. Prior to that time, only perlnewsbot was able to post there. (vroom posted there himself once or twice before that, using his godly powers. The couple other posts you now see in that section prior to that date were originally posted in other sections and later moved to Perl News.)

    A noteworthy figure in all of this is Chris "pudge" Nandor. He was the man behind and He was one of the lead developers of Slash, the perl-based engine which powered both Slashdot and Of course, Slash was also the predecessor of the Everything Engine, upon which PerlMonks is built. Both are products of the tiny outfit called Blockstackers Intergalactic (BSI). Sound familiar? That is where vroom, nate, and other early creators of PerlMonks were working at the time. However, pudge says that he didn't really know those guys, even though he was in the same place at about the same time. Different projects. Here's what he told me in a private correspondence:

    I wasn’t involved in perlmonks much, but I did news.perl and use.perl. IIRC perlmonks was based on Everything, which was a separate project from Blockstackers, which also created Slash, from which Slashdot and use Perl resulted.

    Relevant chronology:

    • 2000-07-21 - New Perl News Section - vroom creates the perlnews nodetype and dbtable. He posts an announcement, saying that perlnewsbot "just sucks news from the RDF from".
    • 2000-07-26 - Perl News Going Away? - perlnewsbot posts here the article from about that site's impending demise.
    • 2001-01-09 - Perl News Credits - KM alludes to a discussion he had with pudge about it.
    • 2001-02-16 - YAPC::Europe Set for Amsterdam in August - perlnewsbot's final post.
    • 2001-04-13 - The PerlNewsBot - A user notices that perlnewsbot is no longer posting to Perl News. A commenter suggests that the bot could be redirected to
    • 2001-06-04 - Is brother perlnewsbot ill? - Another exchange almost identical to the preceding.
    • 2001-06-23 - News section not being kept current? - A user notes that the section is inactive and suggests opening it up to general users, with possibly a level requirement.
    • 2001-07-28 - Why no new news? - A user notes that the section is inactive. In a comment, the OP says" "if there's no automatic news gathering (ok fine), then why doesn't vroom (or whoever) open up the news area to manual posted news?"
    • 2001-08-06 - Member Submitted News - A user suggests opening up the Perl News section to posting by general users.
    • 2001-10-21 - randomnode - (patch) - vroom creates the first patch to mention perlnews (node type) by name in its code.
    • 2001-11-03 - New use for old news - A user suggests opening up the Perl News section to posting by general users.
    • 2002-02-11 - What's happening with Perl News? - "Since it appears to be dead, Perl News should either be killed or opened up to general postings." A commenter again suggests that the bot could pull news from
    • 2002-02-22 - Make (Perl News == Use.Perl.Org) Or Is This Heresy? - A user suggests that the Perl News section link directly to, vs reposting content here.
    • 2002-04-26 - "Perl News" is old - A user notes that "the most recent news in the Perl News node date back to one year ago."
    • 2002-05-07 - Posting Unrelated News Items - A user suggests reactivating Perl News as a "normal" section (rather than mirroring off-site news stories) where monks can post links to relevant stories." This sparked a surprising amount of debate.
    • 2002-05-24 - tye notes in the editors' wiki:
      I fixed several problems with the (apparently rather hastilly) reopened Perl News section. There is one potentially ugly problem remaining...

      Since the work to set up the (unduely complicated) "approval link type" and related baggage has not been done, you can't "approve" Perl News nodes. This means that the approval nodelet won't show. Which means that some ppl can move a node to Perl News after which only editors will be able to move it anywhere else. The best solution is probably to create all of the baggage and make Perl News items require approval.

      You have been warned. Also, if this becomes a point of abuse before an enterprising god gets around to adding "approval" for Perl News, then the ability to move to/from Perl News can very quickly be taken away by deleting one line from writeupmover.
      At the same time, in the pm-port wiki:
      I fixed several things wrong with Perl News, which included changes to: perlnews (the node type), Perl News, perlnews display page, preview settings, vote settings, writeupmover, and perhaps a few others.

      The first problem was that adding new Perl News actually added new poetry. Of course, I noticed this because someone added news so I wanted to move it into the proper section. However, the node type of perlnews uses the dbtable of perlnews in order to add a linklocation field which makes it impossible to simply "move" to/from that node type. But search internal code shows that this extra field is not used currently so I changed the node type to not use that dbtable and then made "Perl News" one of the available move-to types. And I made it so you can vote on "Perl News" nodes.

      Since the work to set up the (unduely complicated) "approval link type" and related baggage has not been done, you can't "approve" Perl News nodes. This means that the approval nodelet won't show. Which means that some ppl can move a node to Perl News after which only editors will be able to move it anywhere else. The best solution is probably to create all of the baggage and make Perl News items require approval.
      Oddly, I don't see any patches from tye (nor tye&amp;) in that timeframe, nor any patches to any of the nodes he mentioned. I believe he must have mucked with all those codes directly, using godly powers. (He became a god on 2002-02-01.)
    • 2002-05-24 - Dr. Damian Conway to speak at Dallas/Ft. Worth Perl Mongers meeting in June - This post by atcroft in the Perl News section was probably originally in Meditations and then moved. I think so because there are records in the db showing that it was at one point "approved", yet perlnews never needed approval (at that time).
    • 2002-05-26 - Perl News reopened - vroom's announcement: "I've reopened Perl News. You can now post Perl News stories there. Currently approval isn't necessary." Unfortunately, modifications to a nodetype definition (e.g. its authorized creators & writers) are not tracked and do not use the patch system. maintenances are; but unfortunately perlnews did not get its sole maintenance - perlnews maintenance create - until three months later (2002-08-23).
    • 2002-05-26 - Boston Perl Classes - uri posts what is likely the first human-user submission directly to the newly opened Perl News section. Its records in the db show no evidence of having been approved.
    • 2002-05-26 - Voting in Perl News - A user thanks vroom for reviving the Perl News section, and offers this insight:
      "One of the reasons it was originally taken out of commission was that many people thought did a better job of providing Perl-related news. While is an excellent site, it focuses on larger stories and probably wouldn't publish most module releases and other small events. I think Perl News would be an excellent place to announce these smaller events."
    • 2002-05-31 - Perl Monks User Search - (patch) - VSarkiss submits a patch to Perl Monks User Search "so nodes in the newly re-opened Perl News will show up"; he notes it in the pmdev wiki. Interestingly, this patch was never applied; and also interestingly predates any other patches to Perl Monks User Search! Even so, the code was updated to include perlnews at some point before the first applied patch.
    • 2002-08-23 - perlnews maintenance create - (patch) - the first patch to mention "news" in its reason.
    • 2010-10-13 - What exactly counts as "Perl News"? - Interesting commentary, especially by tye.
The Categorized Questions and Answers section has been decommissioned in Perl Monks Discussion
1 direct reply — Read more / Contribute
by jdporter
on Apr 09, 2021 at 15:47

    Effective today, the section of PerlMonks known as "Categorized Questions and Answers" is no longer in service. The section page is a tombstone. It is no longer possible to post Categorized Questions or Answers. It is also not possible to search such posts via Super Search. It wouldn't be useful anyway, because all of the posts which were Categorized Questions have been converted into SOPW posts. Likewise, all posts which were Categorized Answers have been converted into replies to those SOPW posts. In each case, the name of the CatQA 'section' in which the Question was placed has been added to the SOPW post as a keyword.

    The intent of the CatQA section will, going forward, be fulfilled by a new system, whereby "good" questions (in SOPW) and their "best" answers will be given a special flag, as well as relevant keywords.

    Some documentation and linkage changes remain to be made. If you see any, feel free to sent a msg to SiteDocClan, pmdev, or gods, depending.

    For more information on this change, see prior discussion: RFC: Better Best Answers Gets Real

    I reckon we are the only monastery ever to have a dungeon staffed with 16,000 zombies.
Banal Configuration Languages in Meditations
1 direct reply — Read more / Contribute
by jdporter
on Feb 26, 2021 at 14:10

    This is so great, I have to share it here. This guy nails it on the head. (Spring, we're looking at you.)

    I suspect a lot of abuse of config files comes from moving logic out of source code for bad reasons. There are good reasons for not hard-coding, say, ports and service endpoints in your source code, because it makes it easier to run the code in different environments. However, there are also bad reasons for taking things out of code. A couple that I have encountered:

    Pride in creating a "generic" system that can be configured to do all kinds of new things "without touching the code." Reality check: only one or two programmers understand how to modify the config file, and changes have to go through the same life cycle as a code change, so you haven't gained anything. You've only made it harder to onboard new programmers to the project.

    Hope that if certain logic is encoded in config files, then it can never get complicated. Reality check: product requirements do not magically become simpler because of your implementation decisions. The config file will become as expressive as necessary to fulfill the requirements, and the code to translate the config file into runtime behavior will become much more complex than if you had coded the logic directly.

    Hope that you can get non-programmers to code review your business logic. Reality check: the DSL you embedded in your config file isn't as "human readable" as you think it is. Also, they're not going to sign up for a Github account and learn how to review a PR so they can do your job for you.

    Marketing your product as a "no code" solution. Reality check: none for you; this is great! Your customers, on the other hand, are going to find out that "no code" means "coding in something that was never meant to be a programming language."
The Perl Foundation responds to the Raku rename in Perl News
2 direct replies — Read more / Contribute
by jdporter
on Jan 10, 2020 at 13:30

    The Perl Foundation (TPF) exists to support the Perl community and all the people within our community, including the newly renamed Raku; the name change doesn’t alter the nature of our involvement or support with Raku.

    The Grants Committee will continue to accept grant proposals for Perl 5, Raku, and other Perl-family projects work as before.

    TPF will continue to encourage development of Perl and Raku events, workshops and hackathons and generally support the global communities.

    The Perl Conference (TPC) will also continue to accept presentation proposals for all Perl-family languages, including Perl 5 and Raku.

    Read the full press release.

    I reckon we are the only monastery ever to have a dungeon stuffed with 16,000 zombies.
New Feature: Usergroup-Private Threaded Discussions in Perl Monks Discussion
No replies — Read more | Post response
by jdporter
on Jul 01, 2019 at 13:44

    We have a new feature: usergroup-private discussion threads.

    This lets members of groups (such as pmdev) have threaded discussions, just like in the regular sections, but completely unvisible to anyone not in that user group (aside from gods, of course).

    Up until now, user groups have always used wiki nodes for intra-group discussion; but wikis are pretty suboptimal for this purpose. (They remain useful for other purposes, such as collaboratively maintained documentation.) The esteemed chromatic made such as observation way back when the concept of the wiki nodetype was first proposed:

    IMHO wikis are best suited to accumulating community resources and keeping them relevant. I do not think that for general discussion that a wiki makes more sense than the usual noding. But if a topic comes up often, summarizing it in a wiki would make sense.

    So this new feature is intended to replace the use of wikis for discussion.

    If you're a member of a user group, try going to the group's page (janitors, pmdev, breathers of fire, etc.) and see what's at the bottom.

    One main way in which these threaded discussions are different from the regular sections is that nodes are not votable and will always have reputation zero — the idea being that it wouldn't be fair for a monk to be able benefit monetarily from posts which are not accessible to the general public.

    Consequent to that, replies are always shown newest first.

    Whenever someone posts a direct reply to a group — which is essentially a top-level post under a group — it sends a message to all members of the group, something like this:

    There is a new comment on pmdev by jdporter...

    This idea was initially floated and developed in Create new [pmdev]-only section "Pmdev Discussion" and Create new [gods]-only section "Gods Forum". But note that the final implementation of the feature did not adhere to the designs suggested in those threads.

    If you're in pmdev, you can see a technical description of the implementation by visiting the new nodetype usergroupnote; scroll to the bottom to the documentation.

    I reckon we are the only monastery ever to have a dungeon stuffed with 16,000 zombies.
    [abbr://] tests:
    • whipuptitude
    • some 'title' text
    • some 'suffix' (no 'title')
    • some 'title' (no 'suffix')
RFC: Better Best Answers Gets Real in Perl Monks Discussion
4 direct replies — Read more / Contribute
by jdporter
on May 16, 2019 at 16:50

    This is a followup to RFC: Better Best Answers

    The fundamental objective of my proposal is to eliminate the Categorized Questions and Answers section — its machinery is odd, gratuitously different from the other sections; difficult to maintain, and nobody uses it, despite its promise — and replace it with something better.

    So I have implemented part of the proposal, up to a basic level of functionality, as follows:

    It is now possible to mark root posts in the Seekers of Perl Wisdom section (hereinafter called questions) as "good", and to mark as "good" any replies (hereinafter called answers) to questions marked as "good". (To be very clear: a question can be 'good'; and a 'good' question can have 'good' answers. An answer cannot be 'good' unless its root post is 'good'.)

    Furthermore, it is possible to associate one or more tags (aka keywords) to a 'good' question.

    In most views (such as the SoPW section and threaded node views), questions and answers marked as 'good' will be displayed with a nice gold star next to the title, as well as the tags.

    There is a new section-like page, Illuminations, which lists all the tags currently in use; this view is analogous to the main page of the Q&A section. If you click on one of the tags, you get a page listing the individual questions having that tag.

    Marking a node as 'good' (which I have internally called "blessing"), and setting the keywords of a blessed node, are features accessible to the QandAEditors via their nodelet.

    Also of interest to the QandAEditors is the enhancement whereby 'SoPWify'ing a Categorized Question not only converts it to a SoPW post but marks it as 'good' and gives it a tag corresponding to the QA section it was in. An example of this effect can be seen in this post. You can see that it is 'blessed' (it has a gold star), and its tags consist of "numbers"; that's because, before conversion, it was a Categorized Question under the QandASection: numbers section.

    So that's the basic workings we have so far. There's a bit more to do before we can consider this major task done:

    • Implement tag search functionality. This should be a tweak to the extant title search functionality, so that it searches tags at the same time it searches titles.
    • Bulk-convert the extant CatQ's. (QandAEditors can do these one by one today, using the 'SoPWify!' button.)
      • When that's done, take whatever succeeding steps are necessary to "shut the section down", e.g. disabling the submission form.
    • Implement the resounding effects of blessing. Possibilities are discussed in the RFC. Don't trigger these effects for nodes converted from CatQ, however.
    • Update the QandAEditors documentation.
    • Indicate Good Questions and Answers in RAT. Or maybe not.
    • Add a nice GUI around setting and modifying blessings and tags.
    • Announce the new feature in Tidings.
    • Figure out how we'll increase the ranks of QandAEditors. Maybe import all current active Janitors and Pedagogues?

    Now my question for you, fellow monk, is:

    What do you think of this? Is it a good idea? What more could we do with this capability to make PerlMonks better?

    Further thoughts...

    I would also be concerned that QandAEditors (or whatever group is given this power) might be tempted, however subconsciously, to treat this award as a special upvote for themselves. We do not want these deputies to go casting stars on every question they like.
    Therefore, I think we should establish some requirements for a question to be eligible for the star. How about:

    • Must have at least $NORM reputation; and
    • Must be at least 3 days old.
    As I explained in the original RFC, the idea is to acknowledge and collect those questions (and answers) which have been esteemed exceptional by popular concensus.

    I reckon we are the only monastery ever to have a dungeon stuffed with 16,000 zombies.
RFC: Hide Very Bad Answers From Visitors in Perl Monks Discussion
16 direct replies — Read more / Contribute
by jdporter
on Jul 24, 2018 at 17:10

    Following on from previous discussion on this topic...


    In the eye of the public (that is, not-logged-in visitors), the apparent quality of the site can be significantly dragged down by answers (or other replies) which are esteemed by the voting population to be notoriously poor.

    Proposed Solution:

    Within threaded views of discussions, hide from Anonymous Monk any replies with a sufficiently low negative reputation.


    In the threaded view of a post within a section such as SoPW, and within the threaded outlines displayed by RAT, any reply with a reputation below a given threshold will not be displayed. (This has the effect of hiding the entire sub-thread rooted at such reply as well.) This feature would only affect Anonymous Monk. Proposed threshold: -7.

    This would not affect any node being viewed "directly", only replies under it -- regardless of that node's type or reputation. It also would not affect root posts being shown in RAT.


    Q. I want to see every reply, even low-rep ones. Does this affect me?
    A. No, as long as you're logged in.
    Q. Ok, suppose I'm Anonymous Monk. Can I opt out of this "feature"?
    A. No, as long as you're not logged in.
    Q. Ok, then are these "very bad" replies completely inaccessible to me?
    A. No; you can still get to them via other normal means, such as Search and Super Search, and direct links.
    Q. What about in Newest Nodes? Will these "very bad" replies be hidden there as well?
    A. Not under the current plan. That's a more "raw" interface, and isn't particularly useful for visitors trying to get a view of a "question" along with its "answers".
    Q. I think a node would have to be much worse than -7 to merit this kind of treatment.
    A. That's not a question. Here's a question: What threshold value would you suggest?
    Q. This sounds like reaping but without the process. Why don't we just let the reaping process handle this problem?
    A. The criteria for reaping are fairly strict. Simply having abominable technical merit (for example) is not sufficient grounds for reaping. Yet these are not strangers to our land it may still be desirable to shield the eyes of innocent visitors from such content. That's all we're trying to do here. Once you've signed in at the front gate and picked up your meal chit, all content is laid bare, just as always, no matter how bad.

    Other thoughts on this idea? Alternative proposals?

    See my update below.

    I reckon we are the only monastery ever to have a dungeon stuffed with 16,000 zombies.
RFC: Better Best Answers in Perl Monks Discussion
5 direct replies — Read more / Contribute
by jdporter
on Sep 12, 2016 at 17:50

    It has long been understood, and I have long felt, that the Categorized Questions and Answers section is fundamentally suboptimal in how it works from the users' perspective; and I can tell you that it would be essentially impossible to improve by a sequence of minor tweaks. What we need is a fresh start. And whatever that looks like, it should reduce the complexity of the site, not add to it. I would suggest that the QA section should be eliminated entirely, and instead have some means to identify and indicate "good questions" and "best answers" among the nodes in the Seekers of Perl Wisdom section. Here are my thoughts; please share yours.

    QandAEditors would have a way to attach a "good" flag to nodes in SoPW.

    A root post (question) so flagged would be analogous to our current "approved questions", and a reply so flagged would be a "good/best answer".

    (By procedure, but without enforcement, QandAEditors would generally only mark first-level replies as "good".)

    Monks of sufficient venerability would be given special bonus votes to help raise the reputation of worthy replies.

    Monks of Level 11 (Chaplain) and above would receive, each day, bonus votes equal to their level minus 10.
    These bonus votes can only be spent according to the following restrictions:

    • Only on replies in SoPW, not on root posts and not in any other section;
    • Only to upvote, not to downvote; and
    • Only on nodes which the monk has already upvoted.
    In effect, a Level 11 monk would get a chance, once per day, to give +=2 to a SoPW reply of hir choice.

    Ancillary to all the above, there would of course be a way visually to indicate which replies to a question were deemed "best". There may even be a reply sorting option to put best answers at the top. An option could be added to Super Search to let the user get only "best answers", if desired.

    If this proposal is enacted, then we could theatrically theoretically create a batch process to convert all of the existing Categorized Questions to SoPW posts with the "good" flag set, and their answers to replies similarly. That would fairly trivial.

    Credit goes to the author of Re^2: Threaded Monks Yodeling Modeling, for stimulating me to think more about this problem and try to come up with a potential solution.

    Why Level 11? Because any time we come up with an idea for a new "level power", I like to try to assign it to a level which currently has none. Ideally, each level would offer some new prize as an enticement. And looking at Number of Monks by Level, I see the numbers jump at level 11. For this arrangement to be worthwhile, we'd need a goodly number of monks to participate.

    I reckon we are the only monastery ever to have a dungeon stuffed with 16,000 zombies.
Editing your writeup is now a separate action from viewing a thread and voting on replies in Perl Monks Discussion
5 direct replies — Read more / Contribute
by jdporter
on Jun 13, 2016 at 16:12

    Historically, when you view one of your writeups (e.g. a CUFP post), you are given a form right there in which to edit your post if you wish. The form fields for that were in the same form as the node voting buttons. This enabled surprising behavior, described here. Therefore, I have removed the "edit" form from the main display view of your posts and pushed it off into a separate edit page. So now, if you visit one of your writeups, you won't see an edit form right there, but you will see an 'Edit' link in the upper right.

    This change has already been in effect for about three months (as I mentioned) for certain sections — Obfuscated Code, Perl Poetry, Meditations, maybe others — and is now in effect for all sections: CUFP, PMD, Obfu, Meditations, News, SoPW, Tutorials, Inner Scriptorium, Poetry, Snippets, Code Catacombs, even Craft, as well as your replies in any section, and any posts of yours which have been thrown into the Off Topic bin.

    Update: Based on feedback from users such as BrowserUK below, I have added a user display option to have the writeup edit form directly on the display page, below the writeup, as previously. However, it is now enclosed in a separate form from the voting buttons, so that the "surprising behavior" can no longer occur.

    I reckon we are the only monastery ever to have a dungeon stuffed with 16,000 zombies.
'Bare' display style now supports css styling in Perl Monks Discussion
1 direct reply — Read more / Contribute
by jdporter
on Mar 22, 2015 at 13:24

    Logged-in users can now apply a css stylesheet to nodes rendered using the 'bare' display style. To do so, go to your Display Settings, and look for the text field labeled "Link to External CSS stylesheet for 'bare' display style:", near the bottom. Only "external" css is supported in this way; the text field's value must be a URL for a page of css.

    For starters, here is some simple css which makes it easier to see the tree structure of replies and to distinguish one reply from another:

    li.reply { border: 1px solid black; margin:5px; counter-increment: re +ply-list; margin-top:20px; }

    You can actually use that "[download]" link, there, as the URL in the Display Settings field. :-)

    To see a page rendered in the 'bare' display style, either add ;style=bare to the URL of the page, or insert /bare/ in the path part of the URL. Examples:


    More ideas:
    form > div.reputation, div.comment-on { padding:8px; border:4px outset #0A8; } div.comment-on br { display:none } div.body { padding:12px } div.pmsig { border: 1px dotted black; margin:5px; } div.header, div.footer { padding:4px; border:3px outset #666; } ul.inline-list li { display:inline; } ul.inline-list li:before { content:"\2023"; margin-left:1em; margin-ri +ght:0.2em; } ul.replies { list-style: decimal; counter-reset: reply-list; } li.reply { border: 1px solid black; margin:5px; counter-increment: re +ply-list; margin-top:20px; }
    For pmdev:
    p.titlechooser { display:none; }
    I reckon we are the only monastery ever to have a dungeon stuffed with 16,000 zombies.
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