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Re: How many man-hours would you estimate you have invested in learning Perl?

by pemungkah (Priest)
on Apr 03, 2013 at 18:13 UTC ( #1026886=note: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??


in reply to How many man-hours would you estimate you have invested in learning Perl?

None - I refuse to acknowledge the term man hours, you patriarchical pig. But I have many person-hours. And let me tell you.....
I find this really offensive.

Using a straw feminist to pretend that ha, ha, exclusive language isn't a microaggression and privilege isn't an issue is bullshit and has no place on a site that is supposedly meant to be welcoming to everyone.

  • Comment on Re: How many man-hours would you estimate you have invested in learning Perl?

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Re^2: How many man-hours would you estimate you have invested in learning Perl?
by BrowserUk (Pope) on Apr 10, 2013 at 16:56 UTC

    I don't care if you say (or imply) that some Englishmen are thick, greedy, ugly or unreasonable; because it is true.

    I do care if you state or imply that *all* Englishmen are any of those -- or their inverses -- because: a) you could not know that; b) it is statistically unlikely; c) those types of characterisations are subjective. So even if you knew *all* Englishmen; and concluded that for you they *all* fit your chosen characterisation; it will not be so for all of them for everyone else. It is therefore untrue. A falsehood that should be challenged. And against the laws of most civilised states to do so.

    So even if you could infer from the OP joke that speaker was in fact a women, rather than (say) some litigation-shy male trying to over-compensate -- which you cannot -- it is either naive, or fantastical or fanatical to believe that the intent was to cause readers to believe that all feminists are so obsessed with gender-neutral terminology. Indeed, it is sexist to believe, imply or state that.

    And as soon as you move away from the "all feminists" to 'some feminists' or 'a feminist somewhere', the possibility of sexism goes away.

    Unless that is you are prepared to claim -- and demonstrate -- that no feminist does, or ever has, seen the use of gender-specific terms as an affront to womankind.

    Because at that point the joke becomes a (misguided) woman -- perhaps under the delusion that she is furthering the feminist cause -- making a stupid remark regarding the use of gender-specific terms being applied to gender-neutral concepts.

    Just as there are some stupid Englishmen; so have there been some feminists -- of both genders -- that have cited the use of gender-specific terminology when used to describe gender-neutral activities and concepts, as examples of sexism.

    So, unless you are of the view that sexism is a one-way street that can only be perpetrated by men against women -- in which case further discussion is pointless -- concluding that the OP joke was deliberately intended to both target *all* female feminists and by doing so cause male readers to view womenkind in a lesser light, then your calling-out of the joke as sexism, and all the follow-on posts in support of that charge, along with the demands for its removal and demands for apologies are both a) wrong; b) themselves sexist (against menkind).

    That is to say, the attempted cure is worse than the original sin.

    My hope is that this contribution will be seen as an attempt to settle the issue rather than anything contentious worthy of further ire and debate. That it will both close the issue in this thread and provoke (quiet) contemplation that might prevent people going off half-cocked in similar ways in the future.

    That is probably a forlorn hope, but I am apt to dream.

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Re^2: How many man-hours would you estimate you have invested in learning Perl?
by shetech (Initiate) on Apr 04, 2013 at 01:26 UTC
    I agree with pemungkah on this one. It's a strident and wildly inaccurate attempt at a joke on feminism, and further implies that the straw feminist would then go on to continue bitching about something or other, seemingly irrelevant to the discussion at hand. I'm a female, something of a nerd and yes, a feminist (and even as I write this, I can FEEL the number of eyes rolling at that statement). As such, I will simply say that the "...you patriarchal pig..." comment does a disservice to this entire community, male AND female, by further alienating a group of people that are among your greatest assets and champions.
      Nice one sockpuppet troll. Brand new account made just to make this post.
        Would you like to know why I created an account? So that I would be posting with a name instead of hiding behind a cloak of cowardly anonymity. That is all.
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      I'm a female, something of a nerd and yes, a feminist (and even as I write this, I can FEEL the number of eyes rolling at that statement)

      You know, I didn't :) I'm of the opinion that almost ever guy on here is a feminist, even the joke poster/defenders

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      Funny thing is ... straw or not ... that's exactly what happened. I say the joke was spot on.

      Jenda
      Enoch was right!
      Enjoy the last years of Rome.

        Funny thing is ... straw or not ... that's exactly what happened. I say the joke was spot on.
        Aha.

        Please, can you show me where in the thread someone called the author a patriarchical pig? Or something comparably insulting?

        So the joke is discrediting feminists by putting the word pig in their mouths. (If that was the intent of the joke, one can discuss - well, if one is able to discuss)
        People complain, without insulting.
        The joke defenders:
        insult the ones who complain,
        tell them how they have to feel,
        and in the end make that a proof that the joke is actually right.

        I'm missing that proof.
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Re^2: How many man-hours would you estimate you have invested in learning Perl?
by Ratazong (Monsignor) on Apr 04, 2013 at 13:50 UTC

    Hi pemungkah!

    Calm down. It's just a joke. You may not think its funny, and that it is politically incorrect. But having this option is in no way implying that perlmonks is supporting racism or genderism.

    Look at some of the other options. They also make fun on certain social groups. E.g.

    • Thanks to Scalosian water ...: What a mean play on people who think that Star Trek is reality ... we should be ashamed!
    • ... so I get the maximum return on my investment: Looking at many postings here, people who only want to learn as few perl possible, in order to maximize their ROI, are not treated with respect at all
    • More time than I've spent learning basic social skills: It is so easy to mock nerds. And so mean, because they never take revenge.
    In fact, there is no option a normal monk can chose, without being insulted being obsessive (last answer), snobbish (5th answer) or a noob (4th answer). If you judge perlmonks by just this poll, obviously no-one is welcome (except possibly bots).

    So please don't take this poll seriously, and don't get enraged by that option. I don't see the need of a some-monks-are-discriminated-because-of-their-gender-we-need-to-end-this-discussion.

    So long and have fun!

    Rata (who likes that poll)

      it's one of those seemingly harmless jokes we're confronted with regularly. I see a big difference to the other options. I don't have any problem with the "social skills" option.
      and it goes one level further - it's not "only" discriminating women, but it's discriminating those who complain about discrimination by pretending that all feminists are aggressive. especially after the incident where a woman heard a bad joke in a conference audience and put a photo of the guys on twitter (which I think was a really bad idea).

      just like I don't generalize men all being sexist, I don't want feminists being generalized as aggressive.

      like it was said in a similar discussion months ago, it's also about context. in a group of friends this might be funny because you know how it was meant.
        Just so. And this is one of the primary reasons why I don't hang out in communities like this very much, and is the reason why I don't attend developer conferences. Every step I take in that world is a reminder of why I'm not welcome.
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        I just popped up to say "Hello!"
        I'll soon return back down below
        I came to further my agenda
        That single issue you'll remember
        My raison d'etre for contributions
        No questions to ask nor proffered solutions
        No molehills flattened just mountains raised
        My PC issue for which I must be praised
        My single issue to disturb the peace
        The issue that gives my life its lease
        And now I've done my duty clear
        That's it. I'm out of here
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      Edit: What was here was a cruel and specific piece of satire that's served its purpose.

      In short: if you were reminded almost every day that you're not quite like everyone else here and if that difference were the focus of countless jokes, you might get tired of feeling singled out all the time. It's not about just one joke. It's about a culture that can't seem to stop focusing on the irrelevant things that make you different instead of the common things that the community is, ostensibly, about.

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      Yeah, telling an African-American "bet you like fried chicken and watermelon" or saying "you're Asian, can you do my math homework?" is just a joke too.

      The other jokes do not take advantage of privilege. This one does.

        Q: How many psychologists does take to change a lightbulb?
        A: Just one, but the lightbulb has to really want to change.

        Q: How many capitalists does it take to change a lightbulb?
        A: Three. One to develop a marketing plan for the event. One to hire the underpaid schlep they'll exploit to actually do the work. One to sell tickets.

        Q: How many radical feminists does it take to.....
        A: THAT'S NOT FUNNY, YOU PRIVILEGED MICROAGRESSOR!!!!

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      "it's just a joke", yeah right - that's crap. Why don't I just make some jokes about "niggers and watermelons" and we can all have a good laugh, I mean we don't need yet another discussion about racism or anything. Bullshit.

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