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Re^4: Additions to the FAQ and a Community Statement

by Ya'akov (Initiate)
on Apr 16, 2013 at 11:37 UTC ( #1028880=note: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??


in reply to Re^3: Additions to the FAQ and a Community Statement
in thread Additions to the FAQ and a Community Statement

Hello, Rolf.

I agree that tolerance for the sort of thing that is equivalent to being jostled on a crowded street is a necessity in some places we choose to go. I've said as much in my posts here.

I respectfully disagree that the mistreated community members here are necessarily able to find a solution without some input outside what has become a sort of resonant chamber, amplifying the louder voices (on any side of an argument) and droning out the reasonable.

From my communications with various active PerlMonks, I know that not everyone here shares your view. But, it is hard from someone who'd rather just get on with things to wade into disputes like this one, and the result is generally that moderate voices aren't a material part of the debate. The shouting down of these people is a heckler's veto, that is, they can cut off debate by harshness rather than deal with the substance. This is true of both sides of a polarizing issue such as this one. It there is any merit to the content from either viewpoint, and I believe there is merit to both, the light is lost in the heat, and nothing endemic here offers a way to change this, hence my appearance.

I feel forced to reiterate that my concern is not the correctness of any argument, nor the famous culture of PerlMonks but the need for civility in the Perl community in general. It is disingenuous to say that what PerlMonks does isn't a reflection on the Perl community (not accusing you of this, just making the point), whether it should or not. "Should" doesn't decide what is, unfortunately.

To the extent I have no standing here, it is at once a weakness and a strength. It is a weakness because I have no special reputation here, it is a strength because I have no axe to grind. I am not here about history but the present. I don't want to remake PerlMonks in some notional image, I want to have PerlMonks reflect, it its unique way, what it means to be "an affiliate of TPF" and a very important and high profile part of the Perl community.

One more note, I hope that it is clear I am not a lawyer. I am the Community Advocate for TPF, and yes, advocate can mean "lawyer", but that is not the sense here.

advocate
noun |ˈadvəkit|

a person who publicly supports or recommends a particular cause or policy: he was an untiring advocate of economic reform.
• a person who pleads on someone else's behalf: care managers can become advocates for their clients.
• a pleader in a court of law; a lawyer: Marshall was a skilled advocate but a mediocre judge.

I am an advocate in the first and second senses of that definition but not the third. My rôle with the TPF is to provide a conduit, bi-directionally, between TPF and the greater Perl community. I am also tasked with finding ways to foster health and growth in the community. It is my belief, reflected in the work I am doing, that the community consists of many smaller, overlapping affinity groups. PerlMonks is one of the most visible, and most important. I believe that for the community to be healthy, each group must be able to have manifest the Perl community in its own way. An analogy might be that The Perl Community is the genotype but PerlMonks is the phenotype.

Thanks for your thoughtful reply, and pleasant tone. And thank you for the invitation to join you. I appreciate it.

  • Comment on Re^4: Additions to the FAQ and a Community Statement

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Re^5: Additions to the FAQ and a Community Statement
by Jenda (Abbot) on Apr 17, 2013 at 09:05 UTC

    Based on the reputation of your nodes you are not doing a very good job. I mean if your "rôle" is "to provide a conduit" (thanks god for online dictionaries including the pompous French-originated words), you should make sure you are being understood! I know that if you spent years in the humanities and French is your other mother's tongue, you got used to a certain vocabulary, but did you consider the fact the the "greater Perl community" includes lots of people whose native language is NOT English? To tell the truth I would not be surprised if even most of the rest had problems understanding your writing.

    Jenda
    Enoch was right!
    Enjoy the last years of Rome.

      To tell the truth I would not be surprised if even most of the rest had problems understanding your writing.

      There is little to understand.

      Wrap-over a total dismissal of the issues raised in eloquent and high-sounding language, and thus distract from the real message which whittles down to:

      We (I, "on behalf of" all those unnamed, uncounted, and mostly unaware) are right and you are wrong.

      It is the ultimate manifestation of the 'Appeal to Authority fallacy'; by first establishing himself as that authority; thence dismissing all objections on the basis that: as he is that authority, all objections against his judgement must therefore be wrong.


      With the rise and rise of 'Social' network sites: 'Computers are making people easier to use everyday'
      Examine what is said, not who speaks -- Silence betokens consent -- Love the truth but pardon error.
      "Science is about questioning the status quo. Questioning authority".
      In the absence of evidence, opinion is indistinguishable from prejudice.
      Yes, board discussions and their rules seem to be very new to him. We all started once...

      Anyway please let this thread die now, it's not in our interest to damage TPF!

      Cheers Rolf

      (addicted to the Perl Programming Language)

      If you're going to get all high and mighty about "pompous French-originated words", then I suggest that you stop using words like "pompous", "reputation", "humanities" and so on. "French" itself is OK though, being of Germanic origin.

        The important difference is the frequency in which the words are used. There's a lot of words of Latin-via-French origin in English. Some of them are used often and are not considered in any way special (until someone ornaments them with accents to show he knows how to make them), some are used either within specific groups or to show intellectual superiority. Maybe Ya'akov did not mean to impress us and this is the way he normally speaks, in either case it hurts what he claims to want to do. Especially combined with his long-winded speeches.

        Jenda
        Enoch was right!
        Enjoy the last years of Rome.

Re^5: Additions to the FAQ and a Community Statement
by Anonymous Monk on Apr 16, 2013 at 14:46 UTC
    I am an advocate in the first and second senses of that definition but not the third. My rôle with the TPF is to provide a conduit, bi-directionally, between TPF and the greater Perl community.
    The problem is not your opinion but that you are claiming authority as "advocat" of TPF.

    While I support others in simply ignoring your amateurish attempts to influence perlmonks culture, I'm very concerned about the way you are damaging the reputation of TPF.

    I don't know which shmock thought it would be appropriate to complain at TPF about perlmonks. - I'm rather interested to know who at TPF is the right address to complain about your "rôle" here!

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