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Saints in our year book / Selected best recent nodes

by LanX (Sage)
on May 26, 2019 at 01:30 UTC ( #11100544=monkdiscuss: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??

Hi

We already had various discussions in the past that Saints in our Book and Selected Best Nodes are biased to the early millennium because of the deflation of votes.

See Deflation and "Selected Best Nodes"

I'd like to provide and code a "yearly saints" page and more relevant selected nodes. °

I think it's beneficial to motivate new monks instead of making them stare at some unreachable "alte kakers" who haven't been here for a decade or keep bragging about their past achievements.

  • One approach for nodes would be multiplying corrective weight per month calculated by the total number of cast votes.
  • Another having an additional saints list for the last x years only.
Other suggestions?

Cheers Rolf
(addicted to the Perl Programming Language :)
Wikisyntax for the Monastery FootballPerl is like chess, only without the dice

PS: to make it clear, this is not about me.

I'd pay money for restricting my online time here.

Update

°) there seems to be a misunderstanding that I want to disable the old pages/mechanisms. That's not the case, I want to extend them with more choice. For instance is "saints" already linking to two other statistics.

  • Comment on Saints in our year book / Selected best recent nodes

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Re: Saints in our year book / Selected best recent nodes
by pryrt (Monsignor) on May 26, 2019 at 18:12 UTC

    Just picking on the Saints in our Book: yes, they are biased toward elder monks... but it's not impossible to join those ranks. tybalt89, huck, and I all joined in 2016, and we've all made it to the top 300 Saints (and I moved from Saint#709 upon canonization 1.5yr ago to #218 now, so one can easily move up in the ranks even after canonization). And soonix, who has been here since 2013, is the newest monk to break into the top 100 (and in 6 years has moved farther up than 17-year veteran and still-active Discipulus). And Athanasius made it into the top 25 Saints in 7 years.

    So I think the top N Saints list has a reasonable mix of old-timers and young blood, and does a good job of rewarding both good contributions in the early days and good contributions in modern times.

Re: Saints in our year book / Selected best recent nodes
by eyepopslikeamosquito (Bishop) on May 26, 2019 at 10:09 UTC

    It's fun to see some really old nodes so I don't like the "last x years only" idea.

    Instead of the "50 of the top 2000 nodes of all time" how about a random 50 chosen from the top 50 nodes of each year, 1999-2019+? Seems simpler, don't need to bother with scaling factors. Since PM has been going for around 20 years, that's a random 50 from about 1000 nodes. I further suggest they be displayed in random order and without showing the rep. Update: Instead of showing the rep, how about showing the year?

      I wanted to keep the old page anyway.

      What about a select box on top?

      ["all years", reverse (2000 .. 2019) ]

      Cheers Rolf
      (addicted to the Perl Programming Language :)
      Wikisyntax for the Monastery FootballPerl is like chess, only without the dice

Re: Saints in our year book / Selected best recent nodes
by footpad (Abbot) on May 26, 2019 at 17:13 UTC

    "Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose"
    -- Jean-Baptiste Alphonse Karr

    As a member of pmdev, you certainly have the privileges (and the trust) to contribute whatever code you think would help improve the Monastic experience.

    Having said that, I'm not entirely sure it's wise to draw a curtain over the accomplishments of those who established the foundations of something that has persisted (relatively unscathed) for longer than many tech careers.

    I would suggest that the history (and the library of existing posts) is part of the site's value. (By way of example, perhaps it's worth pointing out that my first post in a dozen years linked to a previously-posted answer.)

    I would further suggest that the open culture of (general) encouragement and support for studious effort exists, in great part, because effort of the current Saints.

    Perhaps an alternate approach is worth considering. Have you considered something along the lines of a new "Selected Saints in Our Book"? If you model it after Selected Best Nodes, you would be thematically consistent with that feature and could end up striking a fair balance between encouraging new blood while honoring the legacy of those who laid the foundations.

    I realize this is (kinda sorta) what you were alluding to, but I thing it's worth spelling out a little more clearly.

    I dislike the idea of reworking the vote count/tally/impact calculation, partly because we have (had?) a strong tradition of not rewriting our history. Limiting the roll to a set number of years seems like not respecting our history.

    That's my take. Other mileage may vary.

    --f

    P.S. As I'm sure you're aware, this sort of conversation isn't new. "Omnia illa et ante fiebant omnia illa et rursus fient."

      > "Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose" -- Jean-Baptiste Alphonse Karr

      Die Wahrheit triumphiert nie, ihre Gegner sterben nur aus. (paraphrased variant)

      • Truth never triumphs—its opponents just die out.
      • Science advances one funeral at a time.
      --- Max Planck

      I never meant that we ditch the old saints list or selected best notes.

      But "Gamification" is an important driving force of this site, and having better metrics will improve the motivation of new monks.

      I'm also tired of telling people that the ranking here doesn't mean much in the "guru scale" of authority, power or influence.

      The more metrics the better.

      Cheers Rolf
      (addicted to the Perl Programming Language :)
      Wikisyntax for the Monastery FootballPerl is like chess, only without the dice

        Based on your use of a Yiddish phrase that (politely) translates to "old farts" and your reference to "bragging about past accomplishments," I initially read your proposal as somewhat disparaging. (And, given some of the other threads floating around, it didn't seem an unreasonable interpretation.) If I misunderstood your intentions, then I apologize.

        While gamification is an element of the site (examples: post reputation, participation levels, etc.), I would suggest that the primary driving purpose of the site is to provide a supportive community dedicated to helping people solve perlish problems. The supportive part of the site's reputation is, I think, a major part of the site's longevity.

        Perhaps I'm overthinking here, there seems to be an inherent tension between your gamification remark and your assertion that ranking doesn't mean much here. If rank doesn't matter, then why develop a feature designed to showcase member ranking? Put slightly differently, if you're adverse to people "bragging about their accomplishments," then why invest in a tool that can so easily encourage such behavior?

        Let me be clear: I'm not criticizing. Instead, I'm asking questions to provoke thought, self-reflection, and perhaps even a small amount of empathy.

        If you feel a "Selected Recent Promotions" node improves the flavor of the place, then code it up. Please. Let's put it out there and see what other people think.

        If you truly feel more metrics are of value, then let's see some patches or some discussion about developing those metrics.

        I would ask, though, if you're going to start a project of this nature, let's first figure out the problem that truly needs to be solved. That way, we can all collaborate on the solution in an inclusive manner, rather than making it generationally competitive.

        Again, my take. Your mileage may vary.

        --f

        P.S. Have you see Musing on Monastery Content? If not, I recommend investing the time to read it carefully. There's a lot of meat, as well as a lot of back and forth. I think it does a great job of showcasing the strength of the community.
      > As a member of pmdev, you certainly have the privileges (and the trust) to contribute whatever code you think would help improve the Monastic experience.

      pmdev != agile :(

      Cheers Rolf
      (addicted to the Perl Programming Language :)
      Wikisyntax for the Monastery FootballPerl is like chess, only without the dice

        Respectfully, I think that depends entirely on what you bring to it.

        I've seen site updates made with alacrity and I've seen some that have never been applied.

        It's true that controversial changes tend to take longer to reach consensus, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

        If you feel an idea is worthy, then it's worth the time required to implement well and to achieve acceptance.

        That's my take. Your mileage is free to vary.

        --f

Re: Saints in our year book / Selected best recent nodes
by talexb (Canon) on May 27, 2019 at 12:39 UTC

    Although I've been here a while (December 2001), I still get lots of value from visiting the Selected Best Nodes page -- there are few quite old pages with lots of interesting reading. Hmm .. a histogram that showed annual contributions for a Saint would also be neat, as some Saints were active a while ago, but have been away for some time, and others are relatively new arrivals.

    Alex / talexb / Toronto

    Thanks PJ. We owe you so much. Groklaw -- RIP -- 2003 to 2013.

Re: Saints in our year book / Selected best recent nodes
by Anonymous Monk on May 26, 2019 at 03:18 UTC
    Turn off links to said nodes in find nodes nodelet...

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