Beefy Boxes and Bandwidth Generously Provided by pair Networks
Perl-Sensitive Sunglasses
 
PerlMonks  

Re^16: Perl 6 to be renamed?

by haukex (Bishop)
on Sep 01, 2019 at 12:37 UTC ( #11105374=note: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??


in reply to Re^15: Perl 6 to be renamed?
in thread Perl 6 to be renamed?

Thanks for your reply. I had to think for a bit whether to make this a long point-by-point response, as there are several things in your post that we could dive into further, but instead I'll try to explain myself a little better, I think that's the best I can do for the moment (this kind of post is not my strong suit).

First off, you are right, I should have checked your posting history more carefully, as it appears I misremembered, for the moment I can't find any overly harsh insults directed at the Perl 6 folks. The ones I was thinking of were actually directed at fellow Monks. And I think trying to judge "how harsh" your other language towards Perl 6 is is probably bikeshedding.

As you probably know, there are scientific studies that show that emotions and intent are extremely difficult to communicate over the Internet, both on the sending and receiving side. So instead of taking your posting history at face value and trying to pick that apart, let me try to explain how it's being received at my end (and a short response to that). Although like all free advice from strangers on the internet, you're free to ignore it or take it with a grain of salt, perhaps it could also be food for thought on whether this is how you want to be received - I imagine I'm not the only one reading your posts this way.

If I may simplify what I understand your main problem with Perl 6 / Raku to be, it's that it is drawing various forms of resources away from Perl 5 (marketing, brainpower, etc.). And sure, there are some reasonable arguments to be made there. Personally, I'm currently leaning towards the opinion that a rename might be good.

But basically, to me, the language you've used in a large percentage of your posts about Perl 6 / Raku expresses clear contempt for Perl 6 and the people working on it, and conveys the message that Perl 6 is completely unwelcome - not just by you, but the language sometimes reads as if you're speaking for others and it's unwelcome in general (even arguing it should be excluded from this website, against the clear statements of the gods).

As I tried to explain in my previous reply, viewed at a personal level, it's just not that simple. People work on both languages, and people like both languages - as they have the freedom to do. I'm quite confused how you draw the line as to who is a "freeloader", "interloper", "cuckoo", "squatter", and so on, when a fair number of these people are just as much Perl 5 people? Why try to carve off and alienate what is certainly a piece of the Perl community? This is what feels like an "attack": the divisiveness. Is the solution to the "Perl 6 problem" you're advocating to cast people out? (And if not, what is?)

Now even though I may be completely wrong in the above interpretation of your intent, this is how it's being received here. If there's even a kernel of truth there, you might want to take that into consideration. And on the other hand, if this is exactly how you want to be received, well, then we'd have clarity on that, at least.

... a statement of what I believe to be the facts ... I can assure you though that such pithy rhetorical labeling has not always been used by me in the long debate over Raku ... other Perl developers, ... who have believed and believe now as I do.

Well, if they're beliefs, it's certainly harder to argue against. But if you've been arguing this issue for so long, perhaps you might want to consider whether you've become too entrenched in your position, or if there is maybe too much bitterness there.

... mean that, I dunno, that I was right?

Now you're just gloating :-P But really, if you feel your position has been confirmed, then I don't understand why you continue to be, as you say, "polemic" about it. Even the little bits in your posts like "... a Perl conference. I look forward to there being such things again..." at least appear to me to be carefully crafted language deriding the current Perl (5 and 6) conferences, but I don't see the need for it - it shows your bias and it's not appreciated by your target audience, thus reducing the effectiveness of the communication.

(And again, if I'm wrong here, then that is the unfortunate nature of Internet communication.)

... the story of why I feel the way I do about the history of the Raku project and its proponents. I'd love to share with you my experience of all that as a mere working Perl programmer since 1995, and I hope I one day get a chance to do so. I think it would be revelatory for you to hear (which is why you asked++).

Yes, as before I'm still curious, I think it'd be enlightening to hear the backstory. I've considered going to YAPC::NA, but I'm yet not sure when I might get to do that. But my invitation to YAPC::EU still stands, of course!

Log In?
Username:
Password:

What's my password?
Create A New User
Node Status?
node history
Node Type: note [id://11105374]
help
Chatterbox?
and the web crawler heard nothing...

How do I use this? | Other CB clients
Other Users?
Others meditating upon the Monastery: (3)
As of 2020-10-22 15:47 GMT
Sections?
Information?
Find Nodes?
Leftovers?
    Voting Booth?
    My favourite web site is:












    Results (227 votes). Check out past polls.

    Notices?