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Re^13: Making Perl Monks a better place for newbies (and others)

by jdporter (Canon)
on Feb 07, 2020 at 20:33 UTC ( #11112586=note: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??


in reply to Re^12: Making Perl Monks a better place for newbies (and others)
in thread Making Perl Monks a better place for newbies (and others)

I'm not entirely sure what you mean.

So I guess it wasn't clear enough. What I meant was what I said. All those things you're talking about are transparent at the application level. What you type in the box is what the PM engine gets. And it's not unique in this regard; all web apps (except maybe stupid ones which try to meddle in the lower layers) are like this.

We could replace the newlines with <p> tags. But most users don't want this. It would violate the "principle of least surprise". More importantly, given that input can consist of a mixture of html and <pre>-formatted blocks and <code>-formatted blocks (etc.), the problem of determining which newlines to replace and which to leave alone becomes Very Hard Indeed. It's not worth the effort. The result would never be more than 90% right, and that's not good enough. Just suck it up and write your post in html.

I reckon we are the only monastery ever to have a dungeon stuffed with 16,000 zombies.

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Re^14: Making Perl Monks a better place for newbies (and others)
by LanX (Archbishop) on Feb 07, 2020 at 22:36 UTC
    > More importantly, given that input can consist of a mixture of html and <pre>-formatted blocks and <code>-formatted blocks (etc.), the problem of determining which newlines to replace and which to leave alone becomes Very Hard Indeed.

    Hard but not impossible.

    But thanks for mentioning, I didn't think about also excluding <pre> -blocks in my nodelet hack.

    Cheers Rolf
    (addicted to the Perl Programming Language :)
    Wikisyntax for the Monastery FootballPerl is like chess, only without the dice

      Hard but not impossible.

      Plenty hard. 90% isn't nearly good enough.

      I'd be much more interested in trying to support a completely different format — like markdown — than making a tiny tweak to our existing format which will break everybody's brain (certain newbs excepted).

      I reckon we are the only monastery ever to have a dungeon stuffed with 16,000 zombies.
        Not my experience, the code is only complicated because of the wiki mark up and link transformations.

        Paragraphs are easy.

        We've created several 1000 posts since 2016 and I know no case of <p> inserted in code blocks.

        But my approach is quite different to Everything's which sometimes creates weird results.

        I'd say mine is some percent better.

        Cheers Rolf
        (addicted to the Perl Programming Language :)
        Wikisyntax for the Monastery FootballPerl is like chess, only without the dice

Re^14: Making Perl Monks a better place for newbies (and others)
by PerlGuy(Tom) (Acolyte) on Feb 09, 2020 at 10:06 UTC
    I guess we have different programming philosophy. I like Perl, and open source programming in general, because there are no "lower levels". I don't like "black box" programming where modules are used without really knowing what exactly is going on inside. If something doesn't work the way I want, I like to be able to open the lid and see why. I don't like having to format text for no good reason and have posts look like some uni-brow without any returns when there is a return key. I would not like wasting my own and everyone else's time for perpetuity by writing code that forces everybody to waste time inserting paragraph breaks. I calculated if it takes an extra 10 minutes a day for n users, in ten years that would be, well calculate it your own way but that's a whole lot of wasted time that could be spent more productively. If nobody wants to be bothered than I won't be bothered wasting my own time to manually input what should be automatic. If that makes this difficult to read, tough cookies. It will be less time consuming to fix it than to have to mark up any more html unnecessarily. The surprise here is that "RETURN" on the keyboard is disabled when it works fine in every other app or any other website or forum. Having a working return key would not deter anyone who doesn't want to use it from not using it. -- Tom
      Ask yourself: why does the internet produce far more HTML
      than PDF?

      Because HTML is not a print format, it has to adapt to
      different screen-width, styles and font-sizes by automatically
      flowing stuff around.

      When writing one wants a max line width between 60-80 char,
      your automated linebreaks would jigsaw the reading experience.

      As a demonstration I've manually included such linebreaks in
      this post. Have fun reading this on different devices.

      In HTML it's the reader who decides about the line-width
      by resizing his browser. There are only limited useful cases
      where br-tags are appropriate.

      This all is no new wisdom, it's the absolute basic a respected
      web programmer needs to know about HTML.

      So please do yourself (and us) a favor and stop showering pros
      with your ignorant amateur advices. This is a Perl board we not
      a web-dev kindergarten.

        That's also the main problem with <pre> tags.

        > the absolute basic a respected web programmer needs to know

        Any web dev, not only the respected.

        Cheers Rolf
        (addicted to the Perl Programming Language :)
        Wikisyntax for the Monastery FootballPerl is like chess, only without the dice

      Youre a programmer? It seems you're suck in an infinite loop

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