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Re^5: MJDs Contract Warnings - courtesy of Perlweekly

by Arunbear (Prior)
on Apr 17, 2015 at 17:21 UTC ( #1123792=note: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??


in reply to Re^4: MJDs Contract Warnings - courtesy of Perlweekly
in thread MJDs Contract Warnings - courtesy of Perlweekly

Do I believe that either person was actually deriding mentally handicapped persons? I suspect not, hence my question focused only on the meaning of the quote, not the motivation of the quoters.

We often fall victim to using particular terms without fully comprehending what they imply, and that's what I think has happened here.

Is it possible that they were perhaps suggesting that on occasions, persons who are usually judged to be of 'normal' mental capacities; make questionable decisions and assertions that might, in isolation, cause them to be accessed far below their 'normal' faculties, such that they would, in isolation, rate them statistically as 'below normal'?
Possible yes, but to me it seems much less likely than a simpler possibility i.e. that "retardo" is being unwittingly used as a stand in for "stupid" or "ignorant".

We also tend to not notice how poor a "joke" is until the joke is on us. Empathy matters to me much more than political correctness. I'm not telling people what to do or not do, but a thought experiment may illustrate this better than arguments can - Imagine for a minute or two that you had a close friend or relative who is mentally disabled (I have two such relatives), then see if you still think "retardo" is a suitable rebuke term.

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Re^6: MJDs Contract Warnings - courtesy of Perlweekly
by BrowserUk (Pope) on Apr 17, 2015 at 17:48 UTC
    then see if you still think "retardo" is a suitable rebuke term.

    I started working with the mentally handicapped as a volunteer aged 15; and I still participate some 40+ years on.

    then see if you still think "retardo" is a suitable rebuke term.

    It's all about context and intent. In the context there is no intent to apply or relate the term retardo to anyone suffering from a mental handicap.

    Indeed. The only person relating that term to your relatives, is you!

    By seeking out offense, and choosing to be offended, on behalf of others, where no offense was intended, nor can be rationally inferred from the context, you don't help a problem -- you are the problem.


    With the rise and rise of 'Social' network sites: 'Computers are making people easier to use everyday'
    Examine what is said, not who speaks -- Silence betokens consent -- Love the truth but pardon error.
    "Science is about questioning the status quo. Questioning authority". I'm with torvalds on this
    In the absence of evidence, opinion is indistinguishable from prejudice. Agile (and TDD) debunked
      It's all about context and intent. In the context there is no intent to apply or relate the term retardo to anyone suffering from a mental handicap.
      Except that I haven't made that claim, and that's not my point anyway. I'm questioning the suitability of "retardo" as a rebuke term in this context because it equates mere ignorance or stupidity with a condition (mental disability) that for most of its sufferers, is not reversible.
        I'm questioning the suitability of "retardo" as a rebuke term in this context because it equates mere ignorance or stupidity with a condition (mental disability) that for most of its sufferers, is not reversible.

        Your killing me here man!

        So the world should bow to your judgement about suitability?

        You've agreed, that there was no intent. You've agreed, that there was no association in context. Just as I hope you will not interpret the first line of this response as an accusation of attempted murder; you must see that neither person wrote with any intent to disparage the mentally handicapped; and nor will the majority of onlookers take it to mean that. No more than when we hear people say "you/he/she are crazy!".

        Proscribing the use of particular English words because they have more than one meaning, one of which would be derogatory to some group or other, even when obviously used for the other meaning, simply makes light of the real problems faced by those groups.

        At this point, you've made and reinforced my point exactly, all that's left to do is point you at some appropriate previous discussion.


        With the rise and rise of 'Social' network sites: 'Computers are making people easier to use everyday'
        Examine what is said, not who speaks -- Silence betokens consent -- Love the truth but pardon error.
        "Science is about questioning the status quo. Questioning authority". I'm with torvalds on this
        In the absence of evidence, opinion is indistinguishable from prejudice. Agile (and TDD) debunked

      It's all about context and intent. In the context there is no intent to apply or relate the term retardo to anyone suffering from a mental handicap.

      Yes, context is important. However, the "no intent" part is not true. The original quote (which, in the reply, was not put in quotes) is meant to deride a non-mentally disabled person to say that he was acting as if he was mentally disabled. That's the meaning of the quote and the oomph is given to it by the hidden disdain we have for people not as put together as us.

      By seeking out offense, and choosing to be offended, on behalf of others, where no offense was intended, nor can be rationally inferred from the context, you don't help a problem -- you are the problem.

      He did not seek out offense. He pointed out the offense that was already there. He did it by asking a question, which instead of answering, you attacked him, ad hominem. If you don't want to answer the question, or even if you think it is off topic, just say so, or don't answer at all. But don't attack him.

        I attacked no one.

        And you're intervention is unwarranted and unhelpful.


        With the rise and rise of 'Social' network sites: 'Computers are making people easier to use everyday'
        Examine what is said, not who speaks -- Silence betokens consent -- Love the truth but pardon error.
        "Science is about questioning the status quo. Questioning authority". I'm with torvalds on this
        In the absence of evidence, opinion is indistinguishable from prejudice. Agile (and TDD) debunked
Re^6: MJDs Contract Warnings - courtesy of Perlweekly
by Anonymous Monk on Apr 17, 2015 at 18:22 UTC
    retarded
    [ri-tahr-did] Usually Offensive.

    adjective

    1. characterized by a slowness or limitation in intellectual understanding
    and awareness, emotional development, academic progress, etc.

    2. Slang. stupid or foolish.

    Here is an idea. Don't call people with mental disabilities retarded, even though it is definition #1. Call people who don't have mental disabilities that do stupid and foolish things retarded because they need a shock to their system at that point in time.

    People who get so offended by these kinds of things are not being realistic. You just aren't. We are talking about two completely different audiences here, retardo. Take that as a compliment.

Re^6: MJDs Contract Warnings - courtesy of Perlweekly
by Anonymous Monk on Apr 17, 2015 at 18:07 UTC

    No, you don't get special treatment because some particular association may bother you especially.

    This device complies with part 15 of FCC Rules. This device may not cause harmful interference. This device must accept any interference received, including interference that may cause undesired operation.
    Be a good device, mkay?

Re^6: MJDs Contract Warnings - courtesy of Perlweekly
by chacham (Prior) on Apr 20, 2015 at 12:47 UTC

    hence my question focused only on the meaning of the quote, not the motivation of the quoters.

    Well said, Arunbear.

    This mini-thread is interested to read, though i am flabbergasted that it even needs to be discussed.

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