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Re: Threaded Monks Yodeling Modeling

by choroba (Archbishop)
on Jul 09, 2015 at 21:26 UTC ( #1134039=note: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??

in reply to Threaded Monks Yodeling Modeling

Leaking the reputation is not good either, and can bias the voting
Why is leaking the reputation not good? I think the new default order (which you can easily change back to the old behaviour) was established because many monks thought it was good. The group of users that should profit from it is the newbies, who can't tell quality nodes from poorer answers. The group of experienced and voting monks is probably much scarcer.
لսႽ ᥲᥒ⚪⟊Ⴙᘓᖇ Ꮅᘓᖇ⎱ Ⴙᥲ𝇋ƙᘓᖇ

Replies are listed 'Best First'.
Re^2: Threaded Monks Yodeling Modeling
by oiskuu (Hermit) on Jul 09, 2015 at 23:58 UTC

    Why is leaking the reputation not good?
    Herd mentality? E.g. Best Nodes gives this admonition:
    By the way — Please don't upvote these nodes just because other monks thought they were good. If you do, their node reputations will increase — but then we won't really be showcasing the best nodes.

    Next, "easily change back to the old behaviour." I check on PM, and sometimes comment on basic/mundane stuff, all without logging in. No, I cannot toggle that setting.

    ... newbies, who can't tell quality nodes from poorer answers.
    One of the things I like about PM, is that you need to keep your brain in the ON position. Education is never easy, it involves some effort. I do wonder about your teaching career — did you consider your pupils as dummies who wouldn't know a difference unless told so?

    A word about the quality of nodes... My earliest PM post was this, I think. The very first reply in that thread has a rep of +20, and I will tell you that it is a rotten, rotten piece of advice. If you're looking for one CPAN module that ought to be eradicated with kerosene, then that might it!

    The pedagogically effective advice is generally highly rated though, I'll grant you that. But the rep mechanism is not up to the task. (The simplest example I can offer: say an old thread is followed up with a critical clarifying update. The first place you would check an old thread is at the end, for this very reason. But this node may get buried in the middle since nobody bothers to vote on it.)

      I liked the idea that voting should be visible somehow. Changing the order of the replies was probably the easiest thing to implement, so we have it. It would be much nicer if the "Replies are listed 'Best First'." notice was clickable and reordered the nodes in the other way. Maybe the ordering should be separated from voting, but then I'd still like to see at least a hint (negative / low / high reputation) at each node. The question then would be how to calculate it (absolute or relative to sibling nodes etc.)...

      As a teacher, I rated every pupil's homework every week, giving them detailed explanation of why they lost 5 points here or gained 10 points there. The homework tasks, points and comments were all publicly available.

      لսႽ ᥲᥒ⚪⟊Ⴙᘓᖇ Ꮅᘓᖇ⎱ Ⴙᥲ𝇋ƙᘓᖇ

        Grading and directed feedback work well in a typical one-teacher classroom. Perlmonks is more like a workshop with a crowd of upper-classmen.

        I've seen sites adopt thumbs up/down rating on their forums. Absorbing a comments page becomes easy then: eyes scan for the ++nodes, read couple of those and ignore the rest.

        Maybe the owner of each node should be able to cast one extra vote on any one reply to her node. As a way of helping an angel of a reply rise, or a devil of a reply fall.

        I reckon we are the only monastery ever to have a dungeon stuffed with 16,000 zombies.

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