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OT: Sigh ... Windows 10

by roboticus (Chancellor)
on Aug 14, 2015 at 23:27 UTC ( [id://1138652]=perlmeditation: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??

Annoying OT rant. You'll probably want to skip reading this altogether.

I built myself a rather nice Gaming system a while back, and for the most part, I'm pretty happy with it. The big pain in the ass, though, was that I installed Windows 8.1 on it, rather than finding a copy of Windows 7. I've used Windows 7 for a couple years at work, and am pretty happy with it.

However, Windows 8.1 was a nasty kick in the teeth. I'm still fighting with it, and hating it. So when the new and improved Windows 10 was announced, I thought I'd go and install it.

Though, this time, I thought I'd learn a little about it first, so as not to install something even worse than Windows 8.1 (which sucks horribly, by the way). (Note: It's pretty much just the UI part that seems to suck. Performance is good. It's just that the UI went to hell for no good reason. When you mention it on a mailing list, you get the old "Oh, you old farts are afraid of change". Bullhocky! I'm not a *bit* afraid of change. I just hate things that suck!)

Anyway, reading the reviews, it seems that Windows 10 might be a significant improvement over Windows 8.1. Not that I'll be finding out, though. Luckily, before I allowed my box to upgrade to Windows 10, I stumbled across something: Apparently Windows 10 is going to *force* autoupdates--no compromises.

Sorry, Microsoft, but you've lost *far* too much trust for me to allow you to decide when to upgrade my operating system. So I'll be sticking with Windows 8.1 until someone either gives me a (legal) copy of Windows 7 (I'm not interested in pirating it, *nor* am I planning on giving Microsoft another dime to fix their mistake.)

Sorry for the off-topic rant, but I'm in a ranting mood.

(For those advising that I should use Linux, I'll let you know that I have more Linux boxes (5) at home than Windows boxes (2). I put this box together for gaming, but I run it most of the time because it has the good monitors on it, the big honkin' CPU and the excessive RAM. The instant that game stops being fun, this box'll be getting upgraded to Debian, and there'll only be my son's Windows box left in the place.)

...roboticus

When your only tool is a hammer, all problems look like your thumb.

Replies are listed 'Best First'.
Re: OT: Sigh ... Windows 10
by Athanasius (Archbishop) on Aug 15, 2015 at 03:49 UTC

    Hello roboticus,

    <rant>

    Yeah, this hits a sore spot for me at the moment. At home we have 2 boxes running Windows 8.1. Never really used Windows 7, and 8.1 is a big improvement over Vista; also I don’t use the UI; so 8.1 has been a big step up. Mostly.

    Last November, Windows Update stopped working. I Googled and Googled, and — over the course of months — must have tried just about every recommended fix known to the Internet. Except reinstalling Windows, which I just couldn’t bring myself to do, as even a non-destructive reinstall would lose all my carefully installed applications.

    Then, a bit over 3 weeks ago, Windows Update just started working again. Great! So I installed all the updates (except the Microsoft Office File Validation Add-in, which I distrust). The updates included KB3035583, which advertises itself within Windows Update as follows:

    Install this update to resolve issues in Windows.

    (See this useful site.) But it actually installs GWX.exe, the Windows 10 upgrader, which puts an icon in the system tray and periodically issues reminders to upgrade to Windows 10.

    No problem, I thought, I can live with that. The box I use has Windows Updates set to “Check for updates but let me choose whether to download and install them.” But... I forgot about the other box, which was set to the default, “Install updates automatically.” Big mistake. A week ago today, out of the blue, we got an email from our ISP (wireless broadband) advising that we’d used a sizeable chunk of our monthly data quota. After much head scratching, it finally turned out that Windows Update, without being asked, had gone ahead and downloaded the Windows 10 upgrade — all 3 GB of it! — and then told us ... nothing. Only hours later did the message show up in Windows Update history: Windows 10 upgrade failed.

    Anyway, reading the reviews, it seems that Windows 10 might be a significant improvement over Windows 8.1. Not that I'll be finding out, though. Luckily, before I allowed my box to upgrade to Windows 10, I stumbled across something: Apparently Windows 10 is going to *force* autoupdates--no compromises.

    That was my reading too, and why I don’t currently intend to touch Windows 10 with the proverbial 10-foot pole. (Unless M$ changes its policy and guarantees that all updates will be optional.) In the meantime we’ve still got 6 days to go before our monthly download quota refreshes, and precious little data remaining. All for an upgrade that we didn’t want, didn’t ask for, didn’t authorise — and which didn’t even work, anyway (fortunately)!

    Not happy, M$.

    </rant>

    Update: In case anyone else is in the same position, here’s what I’ve done:

    • Changed the Windows Update setting to “Check for updates but let me choose whether to download and install them.”
    • Uninstalled KB3035583 and rebooted (this removed GWX.exe).
    • Re-run “Check for updates” and marked KB3035583 as “hidden.”

    Thanks for listening, :-)

    Athanasius <°(((><contra mundum Iustus alius egestas vitae, eros Piratica,

      it finally turned out that Windows Update, without being asked, had gone ahead and downloaded the Windows 10 upgrade

      On my Windows 7 machine, I've recently received an offer to upgrade to Windows 10 - in the form of a "Get Windows 10" box.
      There's a "Reserve your free upgrade" button sitting here, that I can press at any time - and I almost *did* press that button.
      After all, why wouldn't I want to reserve the right to upgrade to Windows 10 (for free) at some point in the future, if I so decide.

      However, upon careful reading of other information contained in the "Get Windows 10" box, I've concluded that button should really be saying "Download your free upgrade" - so I haven't pressed it yet.

      Are you sure Windows Update is to blame for your problem ?
      Or could someone have elected to start the download without realising that they were doing so ?

      The fine print of the offer that has turned up on my machine acknowledges that it's a 3GB download and that "internet access fees may apply".
      One would think (hope) that MS would not allow for automatic (unrequested) download of such a package - given that they're obviously aware that such a large download might be a problem for some users.

      Cheers,
      Rob

        Hello syphilis,

        Or could someone have elected to start the download without realising that they were doing so ?

        No, I’m positively informed that no buttons were pressed, inadvertently or otherwise. In any case, if permission had been given, even by accident, wouldn’t there have been a message box to the effect that Windows 10 was being downloaded? There was no message of any kind.

        One would think (hope) that MS would not allow for automatic (unrequested) download of such a package...

        Just so. :-(

        Note: when we contacted our ISP’s technical support, their first question was: “Have you recently upgraded to Windows 10?” So, apparently we are by no means the only ones to experience a Windows-10-related and unexpected leap in data usage.

        Cheers,

        Athanasius <°(((><contra mundum Iustus alius egestas vitae, eros Piratica,

      Seven weeks later...

      <John McEnroe scream> I can’t BELIEVE this! </John McEnroe scream>

      M$ have done it again!

      I had Windows Update KB3035583 marked as “hidden.” So, I was safe, wasn’t I? That update wouldn’t come up when I searched for Windows Updates, would it? I mean, I didn’t have to worry about installing any new updates, right? Wrong. Two new updates installed, and there was the old “Get Windows 10” icon back on the taskbar. I’d just installed KB3035583 all over again. :-(

      So, surely I must have made a mistake? I must have somehow unhidden that update without realising it, right? Wrong again. Second computer, no possibility of said accident, yet there it is again, unhidden, marked as “important,” and billed as follows:

      Update for Windows 8.1 for x64-based Systems (KB3035583)
      Install this update to resolve issues in Windows....
      Published 1/10/2015

      No message to say, “This update has been unhidden because...” No indication that it’s an old update. No mention of Windows 10. Cue John McEnroe...

      OK, so after uninstalling and hiding it all over again, I now have a red post-it note to remind me of the KB number. And my “Restore hidden updates” screen now lists KB3035583 twice (in identical listings, AFAICT).

      M$ are persistent, I’ll give them that.


      Update: Thanks, Anonymous Monk, I wasn’t aware of AutoPatcher, it looks useful!

      Athanasius <°(((><contra mundum Iustus alius egestas vitae, eros Piratica,

      Hi Athanasius,

      I have Win 8 and sometimes it reminds me to upgrade to 8.1, sometimes to 10! If I uninstall the KB3035583 update will that stop the harassment?

      There's no way I want to go to either 8.1 or 10. I'd check my PC but that's my home PC and I'm not at home right now.

        Hello bulrush,

        I know nothing of Windows 8. I was still on Vista when my HD died, so I took the opportunity to upgrade to the latest Windows, which happened to be 8.1 (64-bit) at the time. I can report that since uninstalling KB3035583 and marking it as “hidden” I’ve had no more reminders to upgrade to 10. Also, Windows Update (which was down for ~8 months for no reason I could find out) has been working fine since around the time KB3035583 came out. Go figure.

        There's no way I want to go to either 8.1 or 10.

        I fully understand about 10, but — since you’re on 8 already — why the aversion to 8.1?

        Cheers,

        Athanasius <°(((><contra mundum Iustus alius egestas vitae, eros Piratica,

Re: OT: Sigh ... Windows 10
by Jenda (Abbot) on Aug 16, 2015 at 10:17 UTC

    I would not worry about the "you old farts are afraid of change" messages. I was following the discussions about Windows 8 and from the first RCs the opinion was neatly split between those that tried it on a tablet ("it's neat") and those that tried it on a desktop or notebook ("Are you fucking insane?!?").

    Win 8.1 allows you to downgrade to Win 7 or Vista. It's probably too late now, but you can install Win 7 with a licence for Win 8.

    Jenda
    Enoch was right!
    Enjoy the last years of Rome.

Re: OT: Sigh ... Windows 10
by BrowserUk (Patriarch) on Aug 15, 2015 at 06:34 UTC

    There are alternatives to the Windows Vista/7/8.0/8.1/10 interface cockups: "Windows 10 Start menu replacements shifting like hot cakes".

    If you have to upgrade to Windows 10 at some point; be patient. Give it a few months and you'll be able to find instructions on how to disable the automatic Updates and return to 'Check when you want; install the ones you want; when you want'. Along with instructions on which of the plethora of pre-installed drivers you can either, completely disable, or switch to manual (on demand) activation.


    With the rise and rise of 'Social' network sites: 'Computers are making people easier to use everyday'
    Examine what is said, not who speaks -- Silence betokens consent -- Love the truth but pardon error.
    "Science is about questioning the status quo. Questioning authority". I knew I was on the right track :)
    In the absence of evidence, opinion is indistinguishable from prejudice.
    I'm with torvalds on this Agile (and TDD) debunked I told'em LLVM was the way to go. But did they listen!
Re: OT: Sigh ... Windows 10
by planetscape (Chancellor) on Aug 16, 2015 at 10:37 UTC
Re: OT: Sigh ... Windows 10
by Hermano23 (Beadle) on Aug 19, 2015 at 14:45 UTC

    I'll throw in my 2 cents here, because why not. I've used (and still do use) a pretty wide variety of Windows products, and I can't stand the UI design of Windows 8 onwards. I understand the theory of why they do it, minimalist design where everything is self-contained and all that, but it still feels like every Windows update takes more power from the user. Trying to change pretty basic settings in 8.1 is significantly harder than on older versions. With the Surface Pro and windows phone it's fine, but the UI designs on 8.1 and ESPECIALLY the Xbox One are baffling to me.

    I also don't think it's about being an old fart, I'm on the younger end of the spectrum here at 21, but rather pushing a layout that makes very little sense. I get how tiles work for mobile devices, I still think Windows Phone is a good piece of tech, but consider the Xbox. Unlike a phone, tablet, or computer, navigation of a page is limited to joysticks. Having your nice multi-sized tiles for easy pressing is fine, until you can't press them and end up scrolling in a very confusing way through the page. Not to even start on how clunky and unresponsive that console is as a whole.

    This is really only tangentially related to your post, I know, but it's bothered me for a while. It's like Microsoft heard you should maintain a consistent UI design, and just followed that ideal blindly with no consideration of how users actually interact with their devices.

      Have you seen the first generation interface for XBox 360? That one was extremely nice for joysticks, because basically you used left-right to switch between different contexts (game, market place, video, settings) and up-down to choose a specific item. Very fast, very intuitive. But it's not Metro so it had to go.

      Unlike a phone, tablet, or computer, navigation of a page is limited to joysticks. Having your nice multi-sized tiles for easy pressing is fine, until you can't press them and end up scrolling in a very confusing way through the page.

      You forget about Kinect. You're not supposed to use the old and clunky gamepad any longer. ;)

        Funny enough, what it took for me to buy an Xbox One was them dropping the Kinect (and $100 as a result!).

        You're talking about the old "blade" design? That was my favorite UI for any console. The end of the 360 life cycle was almost as bad, with the homepage covered in ads and tiles.
Re: OT: Sigh ... Windows 10
by SimonPratt (Friar) on Aug 20, 2015 at 18:07 UTC

    I was "upgraded" to Windows 8 at work and used it for about 12 - 18 months. I never liked it and never got used to it, so well done for perservering with it.

    My home machine was upgraded from Windows 7 Pro to Windows 10 Pro a few weeks ago now and my experience has been very different. Everything went very smoothly and it is very nice to use (much more similar to Windows 7 than Windows 8, IMO).

    One thing I do want to clear up is that it is entirely possible to disable Windows Update in Windows 10 Pro and above - There are multiple ways to do it, but one of the simplest is with Group Policy (in fact you have all of the old options there - notify, download and notify, auto install and install during maintenance window).

Re: OT: Sigh ... Windows 10
by Monk::Thomas (Friar) on Aug 19, 2015 at 12:38 UTC

    Apparently Windows 10 is going to *force* autoupdates--no compromises.

    Have actually cared about this before or simply installed either all or no updates before?

    I'm asking this because Microsoft is not exactly known for providing detailed and useful information about what an update package actually contains.

Re: OT: Sigh ... Windows 10
by shadowsong (Pilgrim) on Sep 03, 2015 at 10:45 UTC

    W10 isn't too bad, but it's incredibly invasive and if you have any privacy concerns - you'll want to have a look at this guide prior to install/upgrade

    How to disable data logging in W10

Re: OT: Sigh ... Windows 10
by bulrush (Scribe) on Sep 03, 2015 at 11:57 UTC
    Apparently Windows 10 is going to *force* autoupdates--no compromises.
    I hate, hate, hate autoupdates. Autoupdates is the #1 reason for lost productivity for me. Especially when it came to Adobe software. The reasons for lost productivity for me are:
    1. Autoupdates (for introducing bugs)
    2. Network down time.
    3. Power outages.
    4. Virus or other infection.
    I'm not saying I have a lot of downtime. These reasons are all relative to each other.

    My Windows 7 and Windows 8 (not 8.1) works fine. I keep my anti-virus program updated daily. Forcing autoupdates is a good reason for me to find another GUI OS altogether, if I need one.

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