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RE: RE: Proposed XP System Changes (neshura rambles incoherently)

by neshura (Chaplain)
on Aug 04, 2000 at 00:59 UTC ( #26096=note: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??

in reply to RE: Proposed XP System Changes
in thread Proposed XP System Changes

As one of the people on #perlmonks at the time the XP subject came up, I tend to agree with you ivory. I would have liked to see the proposal put before the community in general, I missed a good deal of the discussion on specific numbers, etc.

While I feel that I made my feelings known about XP, I was very surprised to come in today and find the changes already taken place. (Of course, vroom can do whatever the hell he wants to. That's fine by me. And the system can always be changed if no one likes it.) The specific points that I'd like to take up with you are:

  1. Why is it important that less experienced monks remain at lower levels?
    I don't think it is! I do believe that when you create something like XP, people give it value, even if it is completely useless. What is important is that XP count for something. Why have XP if everyone's a bishop or a saint by November of this year because of the vote-out bonus? Sure it makes a person feel good, but what kind of person would fool themselves (and the rest of the community) into thinking they were members just because they used their votes randomly every day to get the vote-out bonus?? I think the point of XP is to really measure something.
    Honestly, I don't think that anyone should be rewarded for voting. You don't get paid to vote in the real world. Maybe that's why only the people that care enough to vote actually do so.
  2. Old School Monks
    I guess I'm an old school monk, but I don't know much about perl. I use this site to learn about perl, and to participate in the community. I hardly ever know the answers to SOPW questions, but I always am willing to share my opinion on the site and the community. I am pretty strict about voting, in that I vote for the posts that I feel are truly worthwhile, and I never use up my votes (except on days where there is an abundance of good posts). I guess what I am saying is that I don't consider myself to be "aligned" with the other "old school monks" on this or necessarily any other issue. Had I been revamping XP, I would have done it differently. But I guess I'll let it run on the new system for a while, because it's probably better than before, and it's good to try something new. I expect you, ivory, to thoroughly bitch out vroom if you think the system doesn't work. You have a voice, and I am glad to see you using it. You should come visit #perlmonks on -- everyone who reads this should.
  3. Ego, Politics, and Posturing
    I'd like to see less of the ego thing. I call people on it when I can. I think it is bad for the community. On this issue, I think many of the so-called old school monks felt that we didn't deserve all the XP (pseudo-ego) we had from voting. In fact, I don't care whether people consider my posts good -- I care about saying things that need to be said. Thus this post.
    Politics and Posturing: people will measure themselves against others, and find themselves lacking. They will try to make up for it. Politics is inevitable. The best you can do is (a) participate in what currently passes for a system, or (b) paint it on the walls. For example:

    Talks that are effectively secret because hardly anyone knows about #perlmonks can not be considered sufficiently discussed within the community. Damn it.

e-mail neshura

  • Comment on RE: RE: Proposed XP System Changes (neshura rambles incoherently)

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RE: RE: RE: Proposed XP System Changes
by ivory (Pilgrim) on Aug 04, 2000 at 01:09 UTC
    Hmmm...well this is kind of why I didn't think it was fair to just change all this so suddenly. I can't IRC from's bad enough that I am posting :P

    I can only really speak for myself, and for me, the XP were a way to challenge myself to not slack off from learning perl and to come to the site and read the posts regularly. A lot of times people have already answered questions by the time I get there, and sometimes I am just so tired or hurried that I don't have time to post...but I still tried to get here each day and try to keep up.

    You're right, we don't get paid to vote in the real world, but those votes have an impact on what happens. If we were electing leaders, or voting on policies I would understand the analogy...but here we vote for posts (and sometimes people vote for or against the writer of the posts).


      You may not be able to answer questions in time (I know I never can) but I try to occasionally write an informed post about something. (Occasionally.) I'm always tired too. I try to pick my battles, so to speak, as they come up and as they seem important: help out newbies in the chatterbox with site problems, or write vroom about things I think are not working. I post too sometimes. I don't much like receiving XP, it makes me feel guilty. :)

      Of course, I believe that if you want to earn XP, you more than deserve it. Your posts are excellent, I've voted up many of them! I didn't know you personally, but you've got both explicit reputation (well-rated posts) and implicit (eg I know that you make good posts, your nick is familiar that way).

      This is a community of people, not of database entries. When I think of reputation, I don't think of a number, I think of a person who has posted good ideas or thoughtful replies. I think what we are trying to get to is an XP system that works more transparently, more in the background, and still encourages the kinds of posts and personal conduct that the community as a whole values.

      e-mail neshura

RE: RE: RE: Proposed XP System Changes (neshura rambles incoherently)
by mikfire (Deacon) on Aug 04, 2000 at 01:32 UTC
    I stand guilty as charged in the bold part. I was heavily involved in the conversation at that time. I can only say I acted in what I thought was the best long-term interest of the community.

    mea maxima culpa

      ROFLOL ok mikfire, don't be silly (you sound so tragic in your post) -- I was there too!! I just thought it would go to wider discussion at that point. I'm as guilty as you are.

      e-mail neshura

RE: RE: RE: Proposed XP System Changes (neshura rambles incoherently)
by royalanjr (Chaplain) on Aug 04, 2000 at 01:16 UTC
    I would hardly say that you are incoherent. *smile*
    To be honest, I am not certain how well the new system would work. I am at a more of a "wait and see" mode at the moment. Your comment that vroom can do whatever he wants is very very true. However, (at least as far as I can see) he has always been responsive to the needs of us that use this site. That being said, I also agree that a little more discussion here (not in #perlmonks) would have been a little better. Not that I am against that channel at all: I do go there when I can. Not enough people either can go there or know about it in the first place. Can't quite call it a voting quorum (sp?). But hey, let's kick back and see how it flies. It can always change if it proves to be unsatisfactory.

    Roy Alan

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