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Re: No Anonymous Reply Option

by Itatsumaki (Friar)
on Nov 24, 2003 at 15:47 UTC ( #309558=note: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??

in reply to Re: No Anonymous Reply Option
in thread No Anonymous Reply Option

Hi Abigail-II,

So far, this entire thread has only brought up one name, tilly, who might have disappeared if there was no anonymous monk. He might even have disappeared if he wasn't able to post anonymously in some threads (which is being proposed). But perhaps there are 3 people who would post here if they could prevent anonymous replies. You wouldn't know. Of, if the potential loss of 1 person is so important to you, if 2 people whould threat to leave perlmonks if they can't block anonymous replies, would your opinion change?

Actually, I hate the XP system entirely, and wish it wasn't here. But my only point is this: the claim that removing anonymous posting would increase the signal-to-noise ratio isn't backed up by a whole lot of facts. I have given some reasonable ways in which it could have the exact opposite effect, in fact.

That's pure speculation.

As is the claim that removing anonymous posting would improve matters. And since this is all speculation, I want to point out that there is no a priori reason to believe things will go only in one direction.


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Re: Re: No Anonymous Reply Option
by danger (Priest) on Nov 24, 2003 at 18:42 UTC
    Actually, I hate the XP system entirely, and wish it wasn't here

    I don't hate it, nor do I think it entirely without merit. That said, all things considered, if there were an option that permanently removed onself from the level/xp system, setting level to 'agnostic' and XP to 'N/A', and removing any "powers" thusly associated --- I'd press the button.

Re: Re: No Anonymous Reply Option
by zengargoyle (Deacon) on Nov 25, 2003 at 02:08 UTC
    As is the claim that removing anonymous posting would improve matters. And since this is all speculation, I want to point out that there is no a priori reason to believe things will go only in one direction.

    first, the signal to noise was me i think. second try this little though experiment.

    take all of tilly's posts and change the owner to Anonymous. better or worse for perlmonks.

    take all of tilly's anonymous posts (if there are any) and change their ownership to Interloper. better or worse.

    i claim the second is preferable and asking a regular user to remember a name and password is not asking much.

    things change, years ago i would have thumbed my nose at any place that required me to jump through any hoops to post. years ago when you ordered food at a fast food place they didn't ask if you wanted it super sized (i would tell you if i did thank you much) or if you want an apple pie with that. now they can be fired if the don't ask. it pisses me off to no end. times change. people adapt.

    create a Lobby area, anonymous and those who wish to remain so can confine their postings there. all they must do to enter the inner chamber is give a name.

    there's always intertia against any change. i'm at a big university. there are people above me who have been at their job for longer than i've been alive (~35 years), cutting (bleeding) edge technology. we still *have* to leave telnet open and available. crazy! the logic goes that there *may* be some professor out on a trip that *only* has access to telnet and therefore we can't turn it off. the answer is that they'll very likely have web access, can download vpn client or at least ssh from *our* servers and be secure in minutes. the outcome, telnet still enabled, hundreds still use it despite all best advice. i can see passwords in the clear.

    don't be afraid to contemplate changing how Anonymous works. don't be afraid of pissing a few (or many) people off. else you'll end up still using telnet.

    i predict that in a year or so there will be no other option available other than some sort of per-user authentication on any site on the internet. the spammers are hitting blogs, script kiddies are out to exploit any known or unknown vunerability and it will soon be to the point that having any application on the internet that doesn't have some sort of access token (regardless of what information is required to get the token, or what information is kept) will be subject to utter hell.

      Hi again zengargoyle,

      Your words about organizational inertia are well-worth considering. But before I get to that, let me reiterate the point I have been making all along: I didn't get into this debate because I feel it is imperative to protect AnonyMonk. The problem I have with your argument is that you never state the possibility that the removal the ability to be anonymous may damage the quality of the site.

      As for institutional inertia, I see your point. Nonetheless, the arguments against telnet are convincing, quantifiable, and easily demonstrable. Those against anonymous posting do not have that level of rigour. In fact, good luck ever reaching the standard you've set yourself with that analogy.

      Most internet sites are overwhelmed with noise. Consider EE or newsgroups for examples. There are two ways to deal with that problem. One is to keep out the noise, the other is to keep in the signal. The proposals you are making are directed at the former without regard to possible impacts on the latter: that's the logical weakness I've been trying to point out.

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