When I'm arguing with a fool...

[blazar]

chances are he's doing the same

 160/31%

certainly he's doing the same

 92/18%

I'm in clpmisc, being told I am an elitist b**tard for pointing out that "it doesn't work" is not an appropriate description of the problem

 43/8%

he's claiming Perl to be "constantly loosing ground on php"

 93/18%

UR HLP CAN HAS BEEN SQL IS TOO MUCH DOCS PLZ SUPER URGENT THX.

 135/26%

523 total votes

[andreas1234567]

"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference".

Mark Twain

[apotheon]

"The ability to quote is a serviceable substitute for wit."

- W. Somerset Maugham

[technojosh]

great quote.

I was born in Hannibal, MO....the hometown of Tom Saywer and Huckleberry Finn. (and also mr twain for a while)

/end pointless comments

[adrianh]

I cannot believe that "I pity the fool" wasn't an option :-)

[kyle]

...I hope nobody's listening to me talk to myself.

There comes a time in some arguments—a time of futility—where I find myself tempted to make absurd statements (and defend them) to amuse myself. The big problem is that arguing effectively with a fool can be hard work with little or no reward. It's easy to toss out some ridiculous assertion and see if it sticks, but it can be hard to gather up all the evidence necessary to really bury it. And when you're done, is the fool enlightened? It is the nature of fools that enlightenment does not reach them.

[tweetiepooh]

There's that bit in "Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy" ...

The problem with talking to yourself is that you know what you're going to say half the time.

[mr_mischief]

I like the idea of constantly "loosing" the ground under other languages!

[punch_card_don]

An appropriate song from France by Pierre Perret that's all too true, and a good lesson to remember when one is feeling superior:

Qu'on soit con ou pas con
On est toujours le con de quelqu'un
Mais on est rassuré à chaque fois
Qu'on trouve toujours plus con que soi

translated:

Whether you're a fool or not a fool
You're always someone's fool
But we're always reassured
'Cause we always find someone more foolish than ourselves

[mr_mischief]

You want to know something really foolish? How about ascribing to someone an emotion you only assume they are feeling, then chiding them for it? ;-)

As for loosening the foothold other languages have, that's nothing to do with myself or Perl programmers in general being superior to anyone. It's a hope that Perl, my preferred language, continues to have its strengths built upon and its weaknesses corrected. There is no tool that's best for every job, but then a general purpose language isn't so much a tool as a whole tool set. There's nothing wrong with having a favorite tool set so long as it meets your needs. The more Perl improves compared to other languages, the less often I need to reach for something other than my preferred tool set.

People involved with the communities around other languages should be hoping for the same thing for theirs. In fact, it's nice when another language shows Perl up in one way or another, only for Perl to catch up. Rivalries can be taken too far, but there's nothing wrong with Perl people voicing distaste for things in other languages that really do need improving and vice versa. In the end, it can mean several languages end up serving the needs of programmers better.

[Moriarty]

I try to avoid arguments with fools as they tend to drag people down to their level where they've had much more practice. :)

[blazar]

I'm not really sure. I'm a fool, definitely, 100%, no doubt. Yet I'm easily fooled, all the time...

[Gavin]

My problem is that I don’t know, until its too late and I’ve lost my temper!

[Popcorn Dave]

Where was the option "I'm usually at work"? That's where I argue with the most fools.

[blazar]

Not really, sad truth is fools are just everywhere: from the lowest depths of social tissue to the highest heights and especially in leading roles. Even worse: most of times "fool" is just not enough to describe such people: if only were they simply fools...

Also, I'm a fool, and I don't even work. Gee!

[blahblahblah]

Yeah but at work you're stuck with them. Everywhere else you can just ignore 'em.

[ww]

It's like wrestling with a pig: the pig enjoys it and you get muddy.

[kyle]

But sometimes it's like putting socks on a chicken. You never get anywhere, and it annoys the chicken.

[girarde]

And yet sometimes it simply must be done.

[blazar]

You would certainly risk much more wrestling with Spider-Pig... D'Oh!

[atemon]

When you argue with a fool, Spectators may not understand, who is the 'real' fool. So avoid arguing with a fool.

--VC

[zshzn]

A monk should be wise; do not argue - teach.

[Anonymous Monk]

Cant teach fools

[naikonta]

Of course, fools can't teach fools.

[zentara]

I always pull out the old pretzel logic, to make the fool go into an infinite Wha? loop.

"If you understand, no explanation is necessary; if you don't understand, no explanation is possible."

If that dosn't work, I start yelling louder until he/she shrinks away in cowardice, then mutter confidently ............. " you dumb f**k".

[papidave]

Proverbs 26:4-5:

Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you will be like him yourself.

Answer a fool according to his folly, or he will be wise in his own eyes.

I'm not terribly good with implementing nondeterministic logic myself, but I think we could do it with the following snippet:

   my $folly = $fool->folly;
   if ( fork() )
   {
      # child process
      answer( $folly);
   }
   else
   {
      # parent process
      answer( not $folly );
   }

[papidave]

I had some time to think about it, and realized that my code isn't valid. My earlier example depends on a race condition to select one state or the other. What I _should_ have done is implement a solution that acts both ways without interference:

  my $folly = $fool->folly;
  my $tabby = new Cat( owner => 'Schroedinger' );

  answer( $folly ) if ( $tabby->alive );
  answer( not $folly ) unless ( $tabby->alive );

The problem I've been running into is that the first time I call Cat::alive(), the quantum decoherence collapses, and it only invokes answer() once. Does anyone have a method for measuring the "alive" state of $tabby without actually looking into the box? I think I need to modify the implementation of sub alive() ...

[jdporter]

use Quantum::Superpositions:

use Quantum::Superpositions;

sub You::answer_according_to_his_folly() {
    any( 0, 1 )
}

not $you->answer_according_to_folly($fool) or $you->be_like($fool);
    $you->answer_according_to_folly($fool) or $fool->be_wise_in_own_ey
+es();

[syphilis]

I invariably find that I'm soliloquising.

Cheers,

Rob

[wolfger]

...a fool and his (money|head) are soon parted.

[stonecolddevin]

I CAN HAS CHEEZBURGER?

[rogueFalcon]

Should we worry that half the people on a site dedicated to assisting and teach perl consider themselves to be fools?

[radiantmatrix]

Not at all. "Zen mind is beginner's mind."

Or, to pervert a more common saying, "who's the more foolish: the fool, or the fool who argues with him?"

[stonecolddevin]

Only if they make others believe they're fools as well.

[samizdat]

Well, there's always the job security of cleaning up after them...

Of course, when they insist that your servers run Windows and your code be written in Java, it _IS_ difficult to deal with.

[sgt]

argue fool. humm fool -- right absorbing element.

[blue_cowdawg]

Arguing with a fool, is like mud wrestling with a pig; you get all dirty and the pig just enjoys the mud.

[f00li5h]

o_O

I tend to go with "that's my answer, feel free to ignore it and continue doing what you've already said is wrong."

[jesuashok]

when I'm arguing with a fool I fell that I am also becoming a fool. So, It is good that never argue with a fool.

[ysth]

I toy with him?

"Indeed, there was no one equal to himself among the men with whom he associated, and this he had felt as a depressing influence, although he had never recognized the cause of his depression. There was Mr Ashton, the vicar, who had succeeded Mr. Browning, a thoroughly good and kind-hearted man, but one without an original thought in him; whose habitual courtesy and indolent mind led him to agree to every opinion, not palpably heterodox, and to utter platitudes in the most gentlemanly manner. Mr. Gibson had once or twice amused himself, by leading the vicar on in his agreeable admissions of arguments 'as perfectly convincing,' and of statements as 'curious but undoubted,' till he had planted the poor clergyman in a bog of heretical bewilderment. But then Mr. Ashton's pain and suffering at suddenly finding out into what a theological predicament he had been brought, his real self-reproach at his previous admissions, were so great that Mr. Gibson lost all sense of fun, and hastened back to the Thirty-nine Articles with all the good-will in life, as the only means of soothing the vicar's conscience. On any other subject, except that of orthodoxy, Mr. Gibson could lead him any lengths; but then his ignorance on most of them prevented bland acquiescence from arriving at any results which could startle him.

[petdance]

I read this as "When I'm arguing with a food..." and was wondering what pop culture reference I was missing.

[blahblahblah]

there's a party in my tummy...

[apl]

Mark Twain is purported to have said "It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt."

So I try not to argue...

[klekker]

<homer>
.oO(What does that mean? Better say something or they'll think you're stupid.)

Takes one to know one.

.oO(Swish!)
</homer>

k

Sorry, couldn't resist ;) (from Lisa's First Word)

[loris]

... I rather be fooling with my arguments.

loris

[Aim9b]

...And from our "There's no fool like an OLD fool" dept...

Functions have argunents, but arguments have no function.

[thezip]

... he often interjects quite loudly, "PURPLE CARROTS!"

[blazar]

Certainly he's doing the same. Except that I don't want to give the false impression not to be a fool otherwise: in fact I am all the time, hence e.g. that clpmisc thing which also applies.

[wjw]

I keep it short... then start asking questions. Arguing is generally a fools game. Everyone has a bloody answer/solution/opinion, and they generally are not really wrong, just unclear from other perspectives. The key is to ask a good question.

[technojosh]

When I'm arguing with a fool, I'm usually spending the afternoon filling in on the phones for tech support.

can you guess what I did this afternoon?

[DrHyde]

When I'm arguing with a fool, I'm generally arguing with someone who takes Linux or some other religion seriously. I'm a fool to take *them* seriously enough to bother.

[Anonymous Monk]

I feel like I'm talking to my wife.