Re: Character encoding of microns

[gone2015]

Have a look at what $clob and $convertedstr contain:

bytes($clob) ;
bytes($convertedstr) ;

sub bytes {
  my ($s) = @_ ;
  my $w = utf8::is_utf8($s) ? "utf8" : "byte" ;
  use bytes ;
  print join(":", map(sprintf("%02X", $_), unpack('C*', $s))), " -- $w
+\n" ;
} ;

which may tell you where your microns are getting lost.

[joec_]

Hi, i tried your bytes code with this data:

use Encode;
$clob = "this is string with [micro sign here] in it";

$convertedstr = decode("utf8",$clob);

print $clob;
print $convertedstr;
bytes($clob) ;
bytes($convertedstr) ;

sub bytes {
  my ($s) = @_ ;
  my $w = utf8::is_utf8($s) ? "utf8" : "byte" ;
  use bytes ;
  print join(":", map(sprintf("%02X", $_), unpack('C*', $s))), " -- $w
+\n" ;
} ;

The output of which was:

74:68:69:73:20:69:73:20:73:74:72:69:6E:67:20:77:69:74:68:20:C2:B5:20:69:6E:20:69:74 -- byte

74:68:69:73:20:69:73:20:73:74:72:69:6E:67:20:77:69:74:68:20:C2:B5:20:69:6E:20:69:74 -- utf8

so, as you can see, it all matches up. Its interesting that i tried your code on my Mac at home so i will have to try it at work. I printed the text before / after conversion, and it prints ok (with micro symbol) before, but after using decode, displays ? on my Mac

What does this mean then? Like i said, i will try your code at work, but currently the text displays ? before and after conversion. I use 'more' on linux at work and Notepad++ at work on Windows, both display ?

Thanks

Joe

[gone2015]

As you say, the strings are apparently identical, except that one is a "byte" string while the other is "utf8". Note that in both cases the strings contain the UTF-8 form of micron, this is significant as we will see...

What you are seeing when you print to STDOUT takes a little explaining...

By default STDOUT will have no encoding associated with it, so Perl will assume that it is LATIN1 (or ISO-8859-1).

When you print the "byte" string, Perl sends the bytes, untouched, to STDOUT -- because Perl treats "byte" strings as if they were LATIN1. The two bytes that make up the UTF-8 for micron are passed all the way to the screen. The screen understands UTF-8, so presto! you see the micron character.

When you print the "utf8" string, however, Perl knows that it should convert the string to LATIN1. So the two byte UTF-8 sequence 0xC2:0xB5 is converted to the LATIN1 equivalent 0xB5 (!). That is passed all the way to the screen. BUT, since the screen actually understands UTF-8, the lone 0xB5 byte is nonsense to it, so it shows some error character -- in your case, apparently '?', on my screen, something I will describe as a splodge.

You can tell STDOUT that it's a UTF-8 file-handle using binmode, so:

use strict ;
use warnings ;

use PerlIO ;
use Encode;

my $clob = "this is string with \x{C2}\x{B5} in it";

my $convertedstr = decode("utf8",$clob);

print "clob: " ; bytes($clob) ;
print "conv: " ; bytes($convertedstr) ;

my @layers = PerlIO::get_layers(STDOUT) ; 
print "@layers\n" ;

print "clob: '$clob'\n" ;
print "conv: '$convertedstr'\n";

binmode(STDOUT, ":encoding(UTF-8)") ;

@layers = PerlIO::get_layers(STDOUT) ; 
print "@layers\n" ;

print "clob: '$clob'\n" ;
print "conv: '$convertedstr'\n";

sub bytes {
  my ($s) = @_ ;
  my $w = utf8::is_utf8($s) ? "utf8" : "byte" ;
  use bytes ;
  print join(":", map(sprintf("%02X", $_), unpack('C*', $s))), " -- $w
+\n" ;
} ;

where the PerlIO::get_layers is returning information about how the file-handle is configured. This produces:

clob: 74:68:69:73:20:69:73:20:73:74:72:69:6E:67:20:77:69:74:68:20:C2:B5:20:69:6E:20:69:74 -- byte
conv: 74:68:69:73:20:69:73:20:73:74:72:69:6E:67:20:77:69:74:68:20:C2:B5:20:69:6E:20:69:74 -- utf8
unix perlio
clob: 'this is string with µ in it'
conv: 'this is string with ▒ in it'
unix perlio encoding(utf-8-strict) utf8
clob: 'this is string with µ in it'
conv: 'this is string with µ in it'

So now you're asking yourself, where the MUMBLE did the 'µ' come from. Well... $clob is a byte string, which as far as Perl is concerned contains two LATIN1 characters, 0xC2 and 0xB5. Now that it knows that STDOUT is UTF-8, it spots the 0xC2 and encodes it as its UTF-8 equivalent 0xC3:0x82, and it spots the 0xB5 and encodes it as 0xC2:0xB5. And yes, UTF-8 0xC3:0x82 is 'Â'.

The message is that you have to be consistent:

• you can operate with byte strings that contain UTF-8 sequences, and provided you leave your file handles with no explicit encoding, those UTF-8 sequences will pass through untouched. Which is fine if the target device expects UTF-8 sequences.

  But, of course, those UTF-8 sequences will look like two (or more) LATIN1 characters if you process the strings.

• you can operate with utf8 strings that contain "wide characters" (held internally as UTF-8 sequences, as it happens), and provided you set your file handles to :encoding(UTF-8) those wide characters will be encoded/decoded as they are output/input.

  You can also operate with byte strings that contain LATIN1 characters, and file handles set to :encoding(UTF-8) will encoded characters as they are output.

  Or you can leave you file handles with no explicit encoding, and encode/decode strings explicitly before output and after input.

But if you try mixing the two, confusion will reign.

See PerlIO::encoding, binmode, open and use open for more on encodings and file-handles, and perluniintro for more on Perl and Unicode.

[joec_]

Hi, Im grateful for your detailed explanation. But, i am still having problems.

If i run your code, with the micron encoded as \x{C2}\x{B5} then just using decode('utf8',$clob) seems to work. As you can see from the first set of clob/conv strings below, after the bytes stuff.

clob: 74:68:69:73:20:69:73:20:73:74:72:69:6E:67:20:77:69:74:68:20:C2:B
+5:20:69:6E:20:69:74 -- byte
conv: 74:68:69:73:20:69:73:20:73:74:72:69:6E:67:20:77:69:74:68:20:C2:B
+5:20:69:6E:20:69:74 -- utf8
unix perlio
clob: 'this is string with µ in it'
conv: 'this is string with µ in it'
unix perlio encoding(utf8) utf8
clob: 'this is string with õ in it'
conv: 'this is string with µ in it'

However if i actually type a micron into the string using Alt-0181 then i get the following output: note i turned use diagnostics on.

 clob: 74:68:69:73:20:69:73:20:73:74:72:69:6E:67:20:77:69:74:68:20:B5:
+20:69:6E:20:69:74 -- byte
conv: 74:68:69:73:20:69:73:20:73:74:72:69:6E:67:20:77:69:74:68:20:EF:B
+F:BD:20:69:6E:20:69:74 -- utf8
unix perlio
clob: 'this is string with µ in it'
Wide character in print at 742047.pl line 19 (#1)
    (W utf8) Perl met a wide character (>255) when it wasn't expecting
    one.  This warning is by default on for I/O (like print).  The eas
+iest
    way to quiet this warning is simply to add the :utf8 layer to the
    output, e.g. binmode STDOUT, ':utf8'.  Another way to turn off the
    warning is to add no warnings 'utf8'; but that is often closer to
    cheating.  In general, you are supposed to explicitly mark the
    filehandle with an encoding, see open and perlfunc/binmode.

conv: 'this is string with � in it'
unix perlio encoding(utf8) utf8
clob: 'this is string with µ in it'
conv: 'this is string with � in it'

That last conv string is i assume your splodge? Perhaps then as no question marks are being output, this is not an encoding problem at all?

I honestly do appreciate all your time

Joe.

[punkish]

what a wonderful and careful explanation. oshalla++. This reply should be front-paged on its own.