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Hi Hauke,

Thank you for your reply, thoughtful as always. I've no time at the moment nor do I think it appropriate to rehash here the story of why I feel the way I do about the history of the Raku project and its proponents. I'd love to share with you my experience of all that as a mere working Perl programmer since 1995, and I hope I one day get a chance to do so. I think it would be revelatory for you to hear (which is why you asked++).

Perhaps that chance will come at a Perl conference. I look forward to there being such things again, having attended my first one in 1998. What I loved most about those days (the Internet was not the instant source of All Knowledge, Nicely Documented that it is now) was that you would go to a conference and learn some real meaty, useful Perl stuff that you would take home and implement. My problem with the "Perl conferences" of recent years is not just that the content is not enough Perl, but that the format makes it impossible to learn anything useful in any depth. 20 minutes for a "standard" talk is just silly IMHO.

With that in mind I've recently begun working on a regional event here where I live akin to LPW, focussing on Perl teaching and training, like the old YAPCs used to. I'm sure you remember, like I do, the thrill you got when you realized how easy and fun it was going to be implementing your ideas in Perl. (Heck I still feel that thrill most days, how many people are lucky enough to say that after a couple of decades in a career?!) My goal for a Perl conference or any type of event, teaching, mentoring, has always been to open up that feeling to people, whether new programmers or intermediate Perl programmers rising to new levels of competence.

So perhaps I'll see you at a conference on this side of the Atlantic first :-)

I must however take issue with your remarks about "insults" and "personal attacks" etc. I've never insulted anyone on the Raku project or attacked them personally. I told Liz she was disingenuous once because I believed she was not being forthright ... maybe you see that as an attack? I have frequently described the Raku project as a "cuckoo" and its proponents as "squatters" because that's what I think their actions are. I do not think that's an insult or an attack, just a statement of what I believe to be the facts. Rhetorical? Sure. I can assure you though that such pithy rhetorical labeling has not always been used by me in the long debate over Raku, and has mostly not been used at all by the many other Perl developers, most better known than me and most less polemic than me, who have believed and believe now as I do.

And I would urge you to take into consideration the fact that while I've been greatly criticized here for my rhetoric about Raku, including directly by Liz ("why are you so negative, so angry", etc etc), it was Liz the core Raku developer who stood up at the conference you recently attended and delivered a keynote address acknowledging the damage done to Perl by Raku's use of the name and later "sister language" fiction, and it was Liz who used the term "squatting" to describe Raku's continued use of the name "Perl." Doesn't the fact that the group I said was squatting now agrees that they were squatting mean that, I dunno, that I was right? Or that it wasn't just a rhetorical "attack?"

Peace and best wishes in Perl!


The way forward always starts with a minimal test.

In reply to Re^15: Perl 6 to be renamed? by 1nickt
in thread Perl 6 to be renamed? by bangor

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