Beefy Boxes and Bandwidth Generously Provided by pair Networks
Just another Perl shrine

Comment on

( #3333=superdoc: print w/replies, xml ) Need Help??

That !0 == 1 is not "well-defined" that I've noticed - perhaps someone could point out precisely where this is stated in a way that is not only definitive, but unambivalent (e.g., I don't want to see docs saying "It works this way, but don't trust it.").

I have found referenced in perlsyn that ! $true_value returns something special. But it says nothing about ! $false_value.

As for perl6, that's not part of the current conversation. As in, if they explicitly document that this is how the not operator works, great, it's explicit. Perl 5 doesn't document it, though, as tye pointed out in Re: One out of three ain't bad (order), perl 5 can't change it now.

Even then, what really is a boolean in numeric context? What is a list, multiplied by "true" times? Or by "false" times? These are conceptually wrong. Just as adding "true + true" to try and get "2" (you don't - you get "true"). You may as well be trying to multiply $string x 'banana' - it makes as much sense.

Except that computer programmers seem to think that 0 == false and 1 == true. Which is a horrible habit to be in (especially when someone gets the brilliant idea to compare if ($var == true)). Let's not expand on that disservice by promoting its further abuse. Instead, let's promote using booleans as booleans, numbers as numbers, and strings as strings. Now, before someone chews my head off ("That's not the perl way! We luvs our automatic type-changes!"), I do think that Larry got it right in Perl6. These automatic changes aren't actually so automatic. They use deep amounts of context to figure it out. And, if we continue with the warnings of perl5 (where things are allowed, but you're probably not doing it right - turn off warnings if you are), some automatic changes will continue to get warnings, even though they work. I hope that booleans in numeric context will be one of them. Unless, of course, you manually set something to say you want a specific boolean (or booleans in general) to have certain values in numeric (or even string) context. For example, setting:

Bool.context(:numeric(true => 1, false => -1)); Bool.context(:string(true => Locale.gettext("true"), false => Locale +.gettext("false"));
Or something like that (my perl6-fu is weak - that was intended to be something approaching a global setting). After all, what is the stringification of a boolean value? Shouldn't that be language-specific? Perhaps one variable should be "true" and "false" - but another variable should be "enabled" and "disabled". Of course, then another could use "male"/"female" (unless you need to keep track of 'other'), or "cowabunga dude!"/"to infinity and beyond!" or ... whatever you want. Of course, that would be more like $bool_var.context(...) or something

Anyway, my point is that booleans != numbers. Anymore than strings are numbers. Using computers, we just have to store them as numbers, because we don't have anything else to store them with. We have boolean operators, numeric operators, and string operators. Use the right operators for the type of data you're using. If you want numbers, convert from boolean to numeric. Make it explicit. The next guy to take care fo the code will thank you.

In reply to Re^3: Secret Perl Operators: the boolean list squash operator, x!! by Tanktalus
in thread Secret Perl Operators: the boolean list squash operator, x!! by Aristotle

Use:  <p> text here (a paragraph) </p>
and:  <code> code here </code>
to format your post; it's "PerlMonks-approved HTML":

  • Posts are HTML formatted. Put <p> </p> tags around your paragraphs. Put <code> </code> tags around your code and data!
  • Titles consisting of a single word are discouraged, and in most cases are disallowed outright.
  • Read Where should I post X? if you're not absolutely sure you're posting in the right place.
  • Please read these before you post! —
  • Posts may use any of the Perl Monks Approved HTML tags:
    a, abbr, b, big, blockquote, br, caption, center, col, colgroup, dd, del, div, dl, dt, em, font, h1, h2, h3, h4, h5, h6, hr, i, ins, li, ol, p, pre, readmore, small, span, spoiler, strike, strong, sub, sup, table, tbody, td, tfoot, th, thead, tr, tt, u, ul, wbr
  • You may need to use entities for some characters, as follows. (Exception: Within code tags, you can put the characters literally.)
            For:     Use:
    & &amp;
    < &lt;
    > &gt;
    [ &#91;
    ] &#93;
  • Link using PerlMonks shortcuts! What shortcuts can I use for linking?
  • See Writeup Formatting Tips and other pages linked from there for more info.
  • Log In?

    What's my password?
    Create A New User
    and all is quiet...

    How do I use this? | Other CB clients
    Other Users?
    Others exploiting the Monastery: (4)
    As of 2018-06-23 13:04 GMT
    Find Nodes?
      Voting Booth?
      Should cpanminus be part of the standard Perl release?

      Results (125 votes). Check out past polls.