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in reply to Re^3: Perl 6 is going to get a lot faster in 2013
in thread Perl 6 is going to get a lot faster in 2013
Your view is prevalent. If you could answer a few questions it might become clearer whether your view is based on something I'm not taking into account, or misunderstanding, or something else:
- Are you looking forward to using Perl 6 when it is "complete"?
- When did you last use Perl 6, and which compiler?
- What do you think is missing?
Folk adopted Perl 5 en masse even though it was and has always been "incomplete". For example, from a talk submitted to YAPC::NA yesterday:
Perl 5.2 introduced prototypes to the language, and in the documentation has noted from the very beginning "Alphanumerics have been intentionally left out of prototypes for the express purpose of someday in the future adding named, formal parameters." That was almost 18 years ago, and we still don't have named, formal parameters in core. |
Re^5: Perl 6 is going to get a lot faster in 2013
by DrHyde (Prior) on Feb 05, 2013 at 11:44 UTC
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Yes, I'm looking forward to trying it out. I've never used it.
I agree that perl has always been somewhat incomplete, in the sense that it's always possible to make it better. But that's a silly way of interpreting completeness. I've given an example (which took me approximately 30 seconds to find using google) elsewhere in this thread of a core feature that doesn't yet exist. I understand that object introspection and macros are also still not implemented.
If I didn't already have a set of excellent tools available, then I might consider using perl 6 even in its current state - just like I did back with early perl 5.
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Yes, I'm looking forward to trying it out. I've never used it.
If you decide to have a go this year, start by visiting the IRC channel #perl6 on freenode between about 10am and 10pm GMT (most Perl 6 hackers are based in Europe) and asking questions. The channel has a very friendly and productive vibe -- and folk like Nicholas Clark and Stevan Little have begun to hang out there in recent weeks which is fun too.
I've given an example (which took me approximately 30 seconds to find using google) elsewhere in this thread of a core feature that doesn't yet exist.
Hmm. I don't see it. (I see two posts to this thread using the DrHyde nick, the one that was general and this one which I'm replying to.)
I understand that object introspection and macros are also still not implemented.
Object introspection was implemented early in Rakudo's life (2008?). It's a fairly mature feature at this point. Fwiw here's a search of the #perl6 logs for "introspection".
Carl Mäsak first dreamed of macros in Perl 6 around 2005/2006 iirc, and began fleshing out a design for Rakudo in 2011. He landed an initial implementation of hygienic AST macros (ie Lisp style, not C style) in late 2012.
If I didn't already have a set of excellent tools available, then I might consider using perl 6 even in its current state - just like I did back with early perl 5.
Imo it's about 18 months too early for those whose focus is getting stuff done rather than having fun helping productize Perl 6.
In contrast I think that Perl 6 is attractive to those who want to have fun trying to find things Perl 6 is particularly good at, pushing against its rough edges, and contributing to its improvement.
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Re^5: Perl 6 is going to get a lot faster in 2013
by chromatic (Archbishop) on Feb 04, 2013 at 17:15 UTC
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Folk adopted Perl 5 en masse even though it was and has always been "incomplete".
Hey look, a false equivalence!
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I feel a little sad to read comments like in this thread from chromatic. I've learned many from you, a very famouse guy in perl community, your book, your blog etc. And I do hope to always see your comments for helping perl improvement than some prejudice biasely.
I can understand your feeling about parrot, but, you have to admit by far, JVM seems be a better platform for perl6 than parrot, and whatever it be slow or not, it should not become a reason which you doubt others efforts, like the comments you leave here, like your blog in several days ago. Before pouring cold water, we, I mean guys who love perl, should at least provide our praise and encouragement.
I am trying to improve my English skills, if you see a mistake please feel free to reply or /msg me a correction
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JVM seems be a better platform for perl6 than parrot
Based on what evidence? A few microbenchmarks written in an incomplete port of a language that isn't Perl 6? Or the fact that Parrot's effectively dead now?
Until I see real programs running on Rakudo, I'm going to continue with my skepticism. These fact-free marketing posts from raiph about his hopes and dreams are, to me, empty promises. I have no doubt that people working on Rakudo have the best of intentions, but they're going to have to deliver usable software—to meet the promises they've made—to assuage my skepticism.
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